CAB said:
JTM said:
Lucky_P said:
JTM,
I addressed this in your other post.
While 'chasing' NRCS program dollars, I planted their recommended mix of orchardgrass/timothy/red clover - but also included some endophyte-free fescue in the mix (paid for with my own $$). Looked great the first year or so. But, if you ever encounter a significant drought situation - and the subsequent overgrazing that often accompanies that - the low/no endophyte varieties 'give up the ghost' pretty doggone quickly. They just can't stand up to adversity or abuse.
It's all well and good for university extension to provide yield data on those endophyte free selections, but those are from small test plots, managed carefully and harvested at peak yield. To me, the proof is in the pudding when they do trials that look at persistence under grazing pressure - that's more of a 'real world' revelation of how well they hold up.
If I were planting a hay field that would only be cut a couple of times a year, and not grazed, I might consider low/no endophyte fescue, but from my own experience, I would not use them in a grazing situation - I'd either go with one of the 'novel' endophyte fescues(several now on the market, Max-Q being the one with the longest history)mixed with an orchardgrass that has some track record of persistence (like 'Persist'), or I'd go with the cheap 'dirty' KY-31, maintain a good stand of legumes to dilute/diminish the effects of the fescue endophyte, and select cattle that will perform on those forages.
Thanks for the info lucky. Based on the information you all have provided I am leaning towards a product by Forage First called Mare and Foal pasture mix. It contains 50% Haymate Orchard Grass, 25% Top Tim Timothy grass, 15% Festulolium, and 10% Kentucky Bluegrass. I would then come back next year and frost seed in some red clover. Anybody have any thoughts on this or issues? Planning on planting Indian grass/ Big bluestem and birdsfoot trefoil into a summer grazing paddock also.
Just asking to possibly save you money and get you better results, wanting to ask why not seed the legumes with your grass seed to save you a trip and to fix N for the grass plants rather than have to make another trip next season and not have as good of method of planting the legumes as you do currently. Here we usually seed legumes along with the grass seed & I personally would seed something like alfalfa and Orchard grass/Brome/Timothy together. Typical seeding rate may be 12 to 18 lbs of legumes with 2 to 3 lbs of grass seed knowing that 5 years from now the grasses are going to be over 50% of the stand. Just asking your thoughts. Interesting topic.
I've heard of people doing this, but we have always seeded everything at the same time.
This year, I'm seeding down about 38 acres. And actually my seed guy suggested something that I think is great wrt seeding - we are going to mix the seed with the fertilizer and broadcast on. Light cultivate, cult-pack, broadcast and then pack again. The first pack is very important and often skipped with poor results - you'll end up with seeds too deep, the spots where the buggy drove will look great others poor. Anyway, going to give it a try given my lack of equipment. Also, need the fertilizer plant to mix and then immediately get on the field - no sitting around.
We typically use a grain drill and use an oat nurse crop that we green cut for baleage. But using a drill can often get your little seed too deep. Anyway, I'll let you know how this method works by the end of the summer. I'm still broadcasting oats, so they likely won't do as well, but I really care most about the pasture mix.