Non DVM pregnancy compensation

[Mill Iron A]

I have heard of the popularity of hiring out services for pregnancy diagnosis and was told it was legal in a few western states.  I have been looking up the statutes and it doesn't appear that way at all to me, does anyone know of any states it is actually legal in? Western states that is? Or is this not true at all?

 

[kfacres]

cattle or humans?  Doesn't take a vet to preg check cows.. anyone can learn.

 

[lightnin4]

cattle or humans?  Doesn't take a vet to preg check cows.. anyone can learn.

Anyone can learn to do it, but in many states it is only legal for veterinarians to do it "for hire".  Sorry Mill Iron, I don't know the laws in the western states. 

 

[Mill Iron A]

I already know how to preg check cattle, I want to do it for hire

 

[lightnin4]

might check the AVMA or AABP websites for links

 

[GoWyo]

I think the Wyoming veterinary practice act limits preg checks to vets unless you are doing your own.  There was some proposed legislation a couple of years ago to open in up to vet techs, AI techs, etc. but it did not go through.

 

[RidinHeifer]

Not too sure bout out west but here in Illinois I know many people who hire others to preg check sheep.
I would email avma aabp and your state vets office....maybe even usda.

 

[DL]

In most states it is illegal to do veterinary work for hire (ie you get paid) if you are not a veterinarian - each state has a veterinary practice code that describes what is considered veterinary practice for that state - look it up online - but be prepared - some states will send you a cease and desist order because you are practicing veterinary medicine without a license and if you don't stop they may take you to court

 

[hamburgman]

I believe Montana a non vet can.  However that person have to take a class or something and be certified and only a few people have ever done it.  Wyoming might be the other state.

 

[GKE Cattle]

This is a not sure question for sure.  Since it is a non-herd health issue, I see no reason that anyone could not do  preg-checks on a cow herd.  Since just about all the time cows that come thru a sale barn ARE re-preged by a lissenced Vet.  The reason we do preg checks is to see what is open or bred and make the cull decesion from there.  When we lived in western SD there were a couple of local ranchers who did alot of the preg testing in our area.  These guys were flat good and the local vets even recomened them, mainly cuz it took some of the load off of them.
  We have also had our local Vets preg our cows now that we live in eastern SD and one year the Vet had a 60% success rate.  We had opens that calved to their AI dates, breeds that cycled two weeks after checking.  Luckey for me I could not sell some of the called opens and we sold alot of $$$$ woth of calves and plus I still had to sleve cows ever two weeks to see where they were as far as calving.  Vets are human too and prone to mistakes,,,as we all are, and no matter what they call a cow it will not stand up in a court of law.  I have in the past had to refund lots of $$$ to people who bought cows that were called to thierAI dates only to have to refund do to a big mistake one someones part.  Now that ultra-sound checking is getting to be the norm it is alot better and quite accurat.  But still not 100%.    But back to the question I never knew there were laws about preg testing...I use who I trust and request the Vets that I am comfortable with and still have to use some imagination with what they tell me.

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

I know in Texas you don't need to be a vet, I got certified when I took my AI class and became certified by a vet to practice AI and palpation (preg testing) by a vet that works for Texas A@M. I got certificates in Texas which don't do me any good in Wyoming except that I learned to AI and palpate. Wyoming you do need to be a vet to preg test for money, I can do my own stock just can't charge money. Then you need to be an AI tech to be certified in Wyoming to AI for money which is not hard to get certified as an AI Tech.

 

[plattevalleysimmentals]

My wife is in vet school and this issue has arose a few different times. But according to her it is legal to do your own but you cant do it for hire.

 

[knabe]

I have heard of the popularity of hiring out services for pregnancy diagnosis and was told it was legal in a few western states.  I have been looking up the statutes and it doesn't appear that way at all to me, does anyone know of any states it is actually legal in? Western states that is? Or is this not true at all?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/13/Gov-Brown-to-Sign-Bill-Legalizing-Non-Physician-Abortions-in-CA

what's next? non-vets preg checking? non-vets doing et work?

http://www.agnutrient.com/~prodairy/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9356:who-can-legally-preg-check-cows-in-your-state&catid=47:ai-and-breeding&Itemid=73

 

[BTDT]

I would not trust the states vet board or vet assoc to give you an honest answer. Best if you call the states attorney and get the code and interpretation.  Laws vary from state to state, some require licensing, some require nothing, some require a degree. The issue has come about due to the shortage of large animal vets that know what they are doing.
Since I have heard and have experienced lots of open cows that calved and bred cows that never did, I will and do, hire whoever I feel is most competent, regardless of what fancy piece of paper they have hanging on their wall.  Same with ET work, if they are successful, then I do not care if they have a gold frame on their wall.

There is a shortage of GOOD large animal vets. That is pretty obvious to darn near everyone.  In my opinion, if they want to make preg checking and et work a "vet only practice", then they should be held accountable for "mistakes".  There was/is a program to encourage new vets to practice in rural areas, but just because they are there to get look at a cow to get their student loans forgiven does NOT make them a large animal vet.

In summary, I prefer to hire someone that does not "PRACTICE" on my animals and then charge me to do it.

 

[Freddy]

Read an article on this and they say the old practiced preg checkers are getting to old to do it ,and the inexperienced young ones will take time to get good at it ....

I think there is a law back here against any one charging for preg checking cows ,but one of the best in the country is not a vet and has a full schedule most of the time because he lives way out in the country ,neighbors have fairly large herds and payment is figured out in some way, extra hay, labor or some where along the red line ....

I had been using vet's and found to many mistake's ,lot of the  time they are vet's who are good at it  but in such a hurry to get through that they miss them hurrying ....
I also get charged mileage when 40 miles away ,got to using blood test through SEK ,have supplies on hand and can do as many or just one pasture while weaning ....ALSO helps in preg checking  the heifers and marketing them....

 

[Bulldaddy]

I'm in Texas and I pay a non-vet technician to ultrasound my cows. He can also palpate. Legality is not an issue.

 

[knabe]

since vets don't like this, what are some creative ways they can still stay in business that both producers and the government can help with?

 

[afhm]

I know in Texas you don't need to be a vet, I got certified when I took my AI class and became certified by a vet to practice AI and palpation (preg testing) by a vet that works for Texas A@M. I got certificates in Texas which don't do me any good in Wyoming except that I learned to AI and palpate. Wyoming you do need to be a vet to preg test for money, I can do my own stock just can't charge money. Then you need to be an AI tech to be certified in Wyoming to AI for money which is not hard to get certified as an AI Tech.

In Texas you do have to be a licensed vet to legally charge for palpation, but not if doing ultrasound unless things have changed recently.

 

[cbcr]

This has been a sticky issue for years, there was a time when AI'ing was considered a vet procedure.  They call palpating a vet procedurebut in most vet colleges it used to be that hardly any time was spent on teaching vets palpation, they basically had to learn it on their own at the expense of the clients.

When vets receive very little training and no medications are being used and with the increasing shortage of large animal vets it really shouldn't be a problem.

When I was doing quite a bit of AI work sometime a customer would ask me to check a cow.  I used to be able to tell a 30 day pregnancy and some vets couldn't tell a 9 month pregnancy.

 

[cowman 52]

As long as you don't advertise, and all you are doing is working cows, there ain't anything that can come back on you.  Looking for business and bragging about it will cause problems