Not about the kids anymore?

[ChristaCheatham]

Just wanted to know what eveyone thought on the subject. Recently in our county people have spent loads of money (taking out a house loan) to buy calves (just steers). I'm beginning to think that it's the parents trying to win a banner and not their child, maybe I'm wrong? It's very hard to compete with that when it comes to the county fair. What experiences and advice can you give when competing against calves that are literally golden?

 

[irh]

We breed our own cattle and have just as good of cattle as the one's that  are winning, but you can't get around the money, steer jocks, judges, people that are running these shows, it's  the cattle mafia.  It's run like our government, honesty is no more!  It is getting hard for families to spend the money,work that we do to go too these shows and see the same people win year after year.  We are  not teaching our young kids anything, except that your family better be loaded to win cattle shows!  Sad!

 

[Bilmar]

It's hard to explain to you kids, but that life. It's not far so get use to it and you will be a lot happier, beside if all you want is a banner or ribbon you missed the whole picture. Like you I cannot compete with the Big Boys, but my family has just as much fun because we don't take losing a hard as they do. If you notice those people spend a lot of time yelling an arguing with each other, then they want to kill the judge when it doesn't go their way,now do you want that to be you. Besides if you want to confuse people, just do your best, enjoy spending time with your kids and teaching them that you cannot buy everything,because the Greatest Gift of All is FREE. So just have fun, before long your kids will be gone doing their own thing and there you will be.

 

[J2F]

It is a huge learning experience for the child. It is the biggest life lesson there is. You either better be great at judging a calf to buy and great at raising it or have a boat load of money. If your great at picking and raising calves then it won't be long someone with a boat load of money will want to hire you. You can go work for them or go in huge debt to start your own business and try make it on your own.  That is life in a nut shell any trade or business you ever want to get into. From opening a  thrift store to starting a computer repair shop to starting and plumbing company. You need knowledge and money to succeed.

As far as taking a loan out against a home  to buy calves that to most sounds outrageous including me but would you take payments on a boat? vehicle? camper? You know how many $10,000 animals have lost, spending a lot of money on a calf sure doesn't guarantee a win. It is about your priorities and what you want to spend your money on. How many people run up debt on a credit card to pay for Christmas for the kids. If you went out and bought a boat would you be mad at a family that bought a bigger faster boat?  It is about how you want to raise your children and what values you want to instill in them.

My humble advise to anyone who does not have the time to look at hundreds of animals to find that diamond in the rough every year, want or have time to work with that animal morning noon and night every day, know what to feed and  how to feed, or have money to buy the best animals and best people to take care of the animal and your only in it to complete and win then get out. You won't have any fun and be mad after every show. It is ok to be competitive and have that burning in your soul to learn and get better but the journey has to have some sort of satisfaction for you or your just setting up to be miserable. There are many, many more winners in Jr. shows then the kid who takes home the purple and some of times on rare occasions  I consider the person who takes home the purple the biggest loser. JMO

There are many rumors I hear about the show industry that if I found to be true I would be very objectionable too but who spends what on what is not a one of them and really none of my business. 

 

[RyanChandler]

I don't know any kids that could even afford a salebarn calf so obviously, across the board, its a family affair. 

Great analogy above w/ the boat.

 

[oakview]

This is far from a new issue.  We showed our first calves at the county fair in 1962.  People were spending a lot of money on calves back then and I would imagine had been doing it since the first calf hit the show ring many years before.  The first steer dad bought for me to show cost $135.  The first registered Shorthorn heifer I showed cost $200.  I still have the sales ticket.  After the first year or two, we raised our own calves with few exceptions.  We heard about our neighbors that spent $500 or even up to $1,000 on a steer.  Only the numbers have changed.  People spending a lot of money on show calves has never bothered me.  I always used the analogy of a family vacation, but the boat, camper, etc., comparison is good, too.  The only thing that worries me is when people don't actually have the money.  I guess I would prefer they spent disposable income and I don't think money borrowed on your house for a show calf would be disposable income. 

 

[GoWyo]

It happens in dog shows, horse shows, car shows,  ....

 

[pjkjr4]

I too will echo what the other people are saying. Who cares if they want to mortgage their house to buy show steers? That's their business, not yours. Showing livestock (as well as just about anything else in life) is what you make of it. My kids show average to above average cattle at below average purchase price. We've been accused of spending big amounts of money (not to our face, naturally) on the cattle they've shown by people that just don't feel they have anything better to do than feel sorry for themselves, and justify why their cattle don't turn out. They don't see the early mornings, and late nights working on cattle, or the support group we have that WANT to help advise the kids, or the constant monitoring of weight and feed consumption, or any of the work that goes behind the scenes. Sometimes it works and we do well, sometimes not. But it's what we do. In just a few short years, my kids will be grown and gone, and all they will have is the memory of rinsing cattle in 112 degree heat so they will eat, or trying to get one dry when it's 20. Experiences like that in the pre-teen and teenage life make me feel better about raising hard-working adults.

I know what i have typed sounds a little cold and harsh, but I get tired of hearing from the coffee shop people (you know who you are) who would rather spend their time bitching about problems, than doing something to resolve it.

As for what your doing, if you're buying cattle from other people......hit the road when those cattle are babies.....you'd be surprised how much cheaper 2 month old cattle are than they are at 5-6 months. Sure, it can be risky doing it that way, but it could also pay off. Also, learn about your feed, and what it will do to/for your animal. Sellers of club calves take notes on who will or won't feed one well. Some are apt to take less mone, and sometimes considerably less to send a calf to a great feeder, knowing that they have a great shot for advertising.

Just my $.02

 

[Mainevent]

Well put pjkjr4, even when I showed I never spent loads of cash for a calf. I won Houston with a 1500 calf, with a number of big money calves throughout the breed. Made me feel good knowing that all my hard work, late nights kicking calves out of the barn because of the heat, and overall time spent making that heifer good enough to beat those calves made me into the hard worker I am today that is for sure.

 

[vc]

We sent to 5 or 6 Jackpots a year with the boys, and our vacation was spent at the county fair. I think over the years we went to the jackpots, we had 1 reserve breed and a few first in class. The goal for going to the jackpots was for them to learn how to show their calves, not win a banner. We did make allot of friends and had a pretty good time over the years.
The last few years at county my son had 4H champion and reserve over all. He also won senior showmanship the last 2 years. I contribute his success to all the experience he got at the jackpots. We did not spend any more for our calves then we had in the past but we did get better at selecting, feeding and caring for them.
I just got back from the largest Jackpot show in our state; the quality at the top end is incredible, the calf that won the whole deal was rumored to have cost 20g. I do not know if he did or not but he was one of the best steers I have seen. I believe he was the Division 5 Prospect Champion in Denver. The kid I hauled there to show his steer and market heifer ended up in her class, he stood second with his calf, steer cost less than 2g. He has put in the work at home, he is constantly learning and he listens to advice (well the best a 17 year old will listen). I thought he did great with his animal; he was switched from 3rd to 2nd because his calf was structurally sound.
If you go into showing steers with the intent to win, you will be disappointed, if you go into it with the goal to compete, learn and have fun, the chances are you will have a good time.

As for the boat analogy, my son saved up his money from his pigs and steers he sold, and at 15 years old he bought a 1983 Champion Bass boat, for 3g he put another 700 into it, he replaced the carpet, rebuilt the carbs (it has 3) and replaced all the fuel lines. It is 6 years later, the boat is still running great, he is not the first one across the lake but he catches fish just like the guy in the 60g boat. Do the best with what you have and you will enjoy it more, concern yourself with what others have you will never be happy with what you have.

 

[[email protected]]

I have heard this for as many years as I have been involved in showing livestock.(50)  For my family it was about learning responsibility and animal husbandry for my kids.  They learned that competition was fun when they won and it built determination to do better when they didn't win.

My girls are adults now and they have no regrets for participating in livestock showing.  They are hard workers and understand that they must have responsibility for their life which includes family, friends, and employment.  They both are managers because their employer recognized that they were workers and were reliable in their job responsibilities.  Sometimes I fed the animals and sometimes momma fed the animal, and our kids sometime did my chores too.  Like feeding the cows on a snowey day, running errands in town, or taking me to the doctor when I got kidney stones at a judging contest.  They understand that money doesnt buy happiness or success, but that it takes some money to have the better things in life that we enjoy.

When we showed we accepted that there was some shady dealings that went on but we chose not to include it in our program.  We had some success showing champions at OYE, Tulsa state fair, and American Royal, but never won the grand prize at those shows.  We understood that we operated on a budget that we could afford.  For if I could have afforded that best money could buy I would have spent it on their show career.  As a parent that had a good job, I made sure that my children had the better shoes, braces for their teeth, and the holey jeans that cost more than the jeans without holes.  I did it cause I could afford those things and wanted my kids to the best I could afford.

  In short, life is not fair to all and we accepted that and did the best we could do on an educators budget.  When we need an extra dollor we found a way to get it.  As my girls have become adults I am proud of them and know that the show program help develop them to the outstanding adults they have become.  I understand what you are saying, but it has been this way since the beginning of time and will be that way in all extra family activities.

 

[doc-sun]

80% of the families that show get beat at the feed trough. learn to feed and to do the other necessary work at home then with good sound selection and presentation your at the top of your class. always watch those who win and ask questions in order to learn. always have the attitude to go home and work harder to do better at the next show. if you do this you will likely always be competitive and have animals that will rise to the top in your show career. remember it's more fun to beat the high dollar boys with one you raised or one you bought for a lot less.  

 

[GONEWEST]

Like most have expressed, I have no problem with people spending what ever they want on what ever they want to spend it on. The golden rule is a tough one to swallow, but its true that those with the gold make the rules.

For me, the part about it not being about the kids anymore is when these adults buy $30,000 -$50,000 steers, raise them in their barns, work on them themselves or hire someone else to and then get some kid to lead it in the ring. The family buys a steer, keeps it at home, does the work, who cares what they paid. But when the kid just leads a steer in the ring that someone else has actually raised, that's another thing all together.

And to the last point that someone mentioned that "80% of the families that show get beat at the feed trough."  If I had a nickel for every time someone told me that my cattle were too expensive, they'd just have to win with a feed bucket, I'd be buying those $30,000 steers myself. There will always be anecdotes of someone winning the show with an inexpensive calf. There will be responses to this saying. "Well I did it."  And I know a little girl the next county over that did it."  But I am here to tell you that if you think you can take a steer that is legitimately worth $2,000 and beat one that is worth $30,000 you are living in a fantasy world. Those people that buy $30,000 steers either know how to feed one, too or they pay people to do it for them. There might have been a time 30 years ago that not many people knew how to feed. But today, it's not like that. These people that pay big money for steers, at least the vast majority, know what they are doing. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. While I will agree that you can make a $2,000 steer out of a $30,000 steer, you can't make a $30,000 steer out of a $2,000 steer.

The best way to compete with a limited budget it to either be good enough at selection to  buy something from someone who is out of the mainstream or get into a weight, division, or  breed that is not so competitive. Just do the best you can with the best you can get and enjoy it the best you can.

 

[vc]

I remember when we first started taking the boys to jackpots, friends would ask why we did it, they wanted to know if the boys made any money doing it if not why we would spend all the money on equipment, hotels fuel, and yes the cattle.
More often than not they had kids playing Travel Baseball, or some other competitive sport. I would ask them how much they spent on travel, private lessons, high end equipment, how much it cost to join the league and how much time they spent running around to do all of this, then I would ask them if it was any different. Answer was always no, but….
Jackpotting, Travel Baseball, Cheerleading, Soccer, Basketball, Hockey, Motocross, or Equestrian competition, they all take money and time, how much you spend if up to each family. To get as much out of any of the above you have to put in the work whether it be practice or grooming and rinsing, the more work you do at home the better you do at the event.
We helped them the first couple years with their hog and first steers after that the money came from the boys and they determined how much they would or could spend on a calf.
They bought decent cattle that would compete at our county level, not cattle that would compete at Denver. Heck we started with commercial Angus picked out of the weaning pen prior to shipping and hauled them to the jackpots. They learned allot those first years and had allot of fun even if they did not win.
We found a good family that we got steers from and we paid a fair price for good cattle, they treated the boys like family and still do. My oldest worked for them prepping calves for their sale for several years and they asked him back over and over.
The lessons they learned and the friends they made over the years were worth more than any purple banner.

 

[Tallcool1]

This is a response to a similar post that I wrote about a year ago.  Since you are talking about a county fair, I feel that it really applies. 

One thing that I would like to add to this......find out where these families are buying these expensive steers.  NOW, call this traders competitor.  Do not think for a second that these traders aren't competitive.  GONEWEST points out something really good in his post.  "Off Weight" or even Off Age calves are hard to sell, so they can be cheap...but they can be just as good as anything else out there.  If you think that a trader wouldn't love to knock off one of his competitors at YOUR county fair, you are fooling yourself.  "Oh, you mean that one that So and So stuck into those people for $28,000.......ya, we beat him with a $2,800 one I sold to some nice people down the road from them".  GONEWEST is right...you don't make a $30k steer out of a $2k steer, BUT......you just never know the whole story.



I understand exactly what you are getting at.  You want to be competitive but you either don't want to or can't spend the kind of money it takes to buy the great one.  I sympathize with you.  It is a money game, no question about it.

There are some things that you can do to gain an edge.

1.  Buy your calves LATE.  Don't get out there and try to compete with the big money that is being thrown around during peak season.  I know, you think that all of the good ones will be gone.  They won't.  I guarantee it.  There are steers that are slow starters, there are steers that don't get paid for, and there are steers that traders pick up late.  Wait until the very last possible moment that you can.  Everyone will have bought their steers already.  PLUS, you don't have to feed them during that interim 4 months.  And the older the calves are, the less they change.  Nobody talks about the $10,000 steer that never makes it to a show because he comes unwound when he hits 650#. LATE MEANS LATE!!!!!

2.  Don't be afraid of the "big name" steer traders.  I understand that they sell $30,000 steers.  I know all of that.  But they also sell $2,500 steers, and A LOT of them.  If you hit one of those guys late, and tell them what you have to spend, they will exceed your expectations.  Some of these guys sell 400-500 show steers a year.  When they "expire", the next stop is the sale barn.  I don't know what part of the country you are in, but you will be surprised if you just call them.

3.  Stay away from prospect type steers.  The expensive steers are expensive because they can win as feeder calves, prospects, progress, and fat steers.  They are the complete package.  Buy fat steer types.  They will be competitive enough at the early shows, and you can sneak up on someone late if you do a good job.

4.  Buy genetically good haired steers.  If you can put hair on a fat steer, you will have NO problem finding someone to help you clip that calf.  Everyone loves to help on a good haired steer.

5.  Feed your steer like a fat steer.  Don't drag him all over 4 states to 20 shows.  Take him out once or twice early, and maybe once about 60 days before your fat show.  NOTHING covers up flaws like a nice even coat of fat cover.  Add a little hair, clip a little "pretty" into him, and you will be surprised.

6.  Buy an easy feeding steer.  If you buy a big bellied, chubby steer, everything else will just kind of fall into place.  You can get him fat early, and keep him that way all the way through.  He will never have to be on a super "hot" ration so hair growth will come easier, and they are just cheaper to feed and maintain.

7.  Buy one that can move.  Make sure he is loose moving, and he has to fill his tracks when he weighs 800# or he absolutely will not when he weighs #1300.  A super sound steer absolutely can beat a more powerful steer in a fat show, especially if you can put the hair on him.  Some judges are really hung up on movement, and you can "out sound" one of those monster boned and overpowered ones with just plain functionality.  Movement combined with these other variables CAN be all the justification that a judge needs.

8.  WORK.

Just my opinion.  Maybe some of this will help you.  Hang in there

 

[shortyjock89]

Excellent post. I'm always appalled at the folks that are just so against going to buy steers from the guys that do it for a living.  Heck, even Bonham sells $2500 steers that go and win shows.

 

[Tallcool1]

Excellent post. I'm always appalled at the folks that are just so against going to buy steers from the guys that do it for a living.  Heck, even Bonham sells $2500 steers that go and win shows.

Yes, Bonham North in fact sold my kids a steer last year......for $2500.  He was a DECEMBER calf, that was in fact off aged, but we bought him for our County Fair. 

We showed him 5 times, he was Grand or Reserve every time, and was Reserve at our County Fair.

I wish I knew how to post a picture on this website, but I don't.  Oh well.  Maybe someday I will figure it out.

He was an exact description of my post.  Nothing sexy about him, until we put a whole bunch of hair on him.  Ate like a hog, and he absolutely filled his tracks at 1385# before shrinking to go to the fair.  No, we did NOT beat the $12,500 steer that was at our County Fair, but we got past a whole bunch of $5-$7K steers and beat lots of them during the season.

 

[ChristaCheatham]

Thanks for the replies everyone! The steer I have this year is the best I've had. I LOVE him! He's thick and has a great gut on him. The people I bought him off of are great too. They really know their stuff and don't overcharge. It's the Lange's who raised Money Train this year for Lautner. I actually met Andrew on here via steerplanet and now I have a great steer in my barn. I'm excited to take him out to some spring shows. He won his class at the Hoosier Beef Congress and has freak hair as they call it. He may not have been bought for $100,000, but I think with some work and time and will be able to compete with them.

 

[Will]

One of my favorite quotes "Purple Banners do not make a champion HARD WORK DOES"

 

[cpratz]

If you buy them late at bonham they can be really really cheap! I got a steer for Denver for under 3 and then went on to win my class at Denver this year! A good clip job, hard work, and constant feeding can turn an average calf into a class winner at a nation show!