Pharo Philosophies

[Mark H]

Commercial cow calf operators, particularly those that retain ownership, want to raise the lowest cost slaughter animal at 1200 to 1500 LB.  This means having a fast growing YG 1-2 animal that is as lean as the market will accept.  A faster growing animal will be ready for slaughter at a younger age meaning less feed will go for maintenance also lean tissue is much less metabolically expensive to put on a steer making the gain thus much more efficient.  Generally small framed cattle do not fit this mold particularly when grain is expensive and the premium for producing fater cattle are too narrow to cover the increased costs.

 

[kfacres]

The only thing I can see positive behind producing these tiny framed, sloppy made cattle.. is a niche market.  Pharo has a niche selling to people like himself, and his buyers have to have a niche selling into something that pays a premium for quality grade, and cares less about performance or shear muscle/ pounds of product

 

[sjcattleco]

The only thing I can see positive behind producing these tiny framed, sloppy made cattle.. is a niche market.  Pharo has a niche selling to people like himself, and his buyers have to have a niche selling into something that pays a premium for quality grade, and cares less about performance or shear muscle/ pounds of product

Proud to be a HERD QUITTER!!!!

good cattle are profitable cattle!!!! if you think that supplementing cows and creep feeding calves is profitable you better think again... at 800 plus bulls a year Pharo is far from a niche marketer!!!! if you think those cattle don't perform you better think again!  better study your lessons and either buy a PCC bull or a SJCC bull!  especially if your cows are too big

 

[garybob]

They are a tool, but they are not the entire hardware store!

 

[Aussie]

I hope that some of the breeders got a wake up call, IMHO there is no need of a frame score 3 to 4 Red Angus bull in the midwest, I am beginning to question the frame score 5's. Most commercial producers still sell their calves by the pound, it is our job as breeders to produce what our market is looking for. RW

(clapping)
All I am going to say as most know which camp I am in is they are not breeding Red or Black Angus they are Lowlines. Cut the crap and call them that and stop tring to shrink these breeds

 

[aj]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was a colored communist jew with a Mormon mother. And I might point out that herd quitter spelled backwards is rettiuq derh. Be afraid....very afraid. His propaganda is ruining the lives of every unsuspecting goofball cattle everywhere. HE MUST BE STOPPED. We must ban together and STOP HIM. I plead with everybody. Once this kind of Hindouism gets a camels nose under the tent a slippery slope will slide into hell as we know it and then Shazam. They pull MASH off tv? Thats what keeps me up at night! Ban together who out thy brother hood of performance elite race and overcome. OVERCOME I sayeth. Light the fires and grab thy three prong pitch forks. Do it for mother earth and country.  CHARGEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[Aussie]

aj. You are right  ;D Hope your night is going well sounds like it is

 

[aj]

Wait.....wait.....Aussie spelled backwards is eissua. I knew there was something funny about you.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

aj are you really david Allen coe in disguise? Your pic is a dead ringer for the guy. I personally love him. Got him on my ipod


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOP8j8vJAkE&feature=related

 

[aj]

"They tell me I look like merl Haggerd ...and sound alot like David Allen Coe" At least you listen to the good stuff. ;D

 

[aj]

Try "leave this long haired country boy alone" Charlie Daniels Band.

 

[justintime]

Due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of cow country all acrossed the U.S. and parts of Canada. I am very familiar with the Cheyanne Wells area and it is tough country. However I also know of several very successful cattlemen that don't subscribe to Kits propaganda that are in the same enviroment as he is, some of them pretty close to him (There is a very good Mexican place to eat at between Russel Springs, KS. and Cheyanne Wells by the way). Also due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of Red Angus cattle sell. Here is what I am seeing since it has become politically correct to moderate the Red angus breed (Keep in mind that we were never in the race to make them too tall to see over in the 80's). At a recent very well established midwest sale the females sold like hot cakes, however the bulls were a different story. The bigger, stouter, growthier bulls sold well, the 4 to 5 frame score bulls had to be very exceptional to get a bid on. I spoke with 2 commercial "buyers" that came to the sale specifically to buy Red Angus bulls, both were going home with empty trailers. When I questioned them they both stated basically the same reason -" these little bulls cost us money when we sell the calves over the scales in the fall." I hope that some of the breeders got a wake up call, IMHO there is no need of a frame score 3 to 4 Red Angus bull in the midwest, I am beginning to question the frame score 5's. Most commercial producers still sell their calves by the pound, it is our job as breeders to produce what our market is looking for. RW

As per usual RW, you make perfect sense. I agree that it is the job of the breeder to produce what the market is looking for. If you don't even try to do this, you are just raising cattle for your own enjoyment and you had better not quite your day job!

 

[aj]

Would you havr a spread sheet comparing frame scores to prices RW. I heard that at Marty's sale on Saturday the hgh selling bull was a frame 4.5      How can this be?

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Would you havr a spread sheet comparing frame scores to prices RW. I heard that at Marty's sale on Saturday the hgh selling bull was a frame 4.5      How can this be?

AJ - I am packing my bags to head to the Red Alliance sale in Shawnee, OK. now. I will try to put that data togather for you when I return home a week from now. It's here in the pile on my desk amidst many other sale catalogs. I think that different parts of the country and different breeds may vary greatly from one and another. We'll see what the Okies have to say about it this Saturday. RW

 

[Till-Hill]

I have been waiting for the PCC talk on here for awhile now and it is finally here! Well folks I don't do everything the way anyone does but here are my 2 cents. My cows must breed back in a timely manner, take care of their calf, wean one as heavy as possible without grain or silage  and do it all without me helping her. If she can't do that I don't need her around.

And on the  small cows  my checkbook  likes them 1000-1250 lb cows that wean 600-700 lb calves. The 1800 lb cows that still only wean a 700 lb calf don't get much time on my place. I weigh and get adjusted weaning weights on all my calves and get my cows weighed when they are mid aged or so. I ain't saying I'm right I'm just saying that's what I need to be profitable. I have cows to make me money, that's why I'm in this business.

 

[aandtcattle]

Due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of cow country all acrossed the U.S. and parts of Canada. I am very familiar with the Cheyanne Wells area and it is tough country. However I also know of several very successful cattlemen that don't subscribe to Kits propaganda that are in the same enviroment as he is, some of them pretty close to him (There is a very good Mexican place to eat at between Russel Springs, KS. and Cheyanne Wells by the way). Also due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of Red Angus cattle sell. Here is what I am seeing since it has become politically correct to moderate the Red angus breed (Keep in mind that we were never in the race to make them too tall to see over in the 80's). At a recent very well established midwest sale the females sold like hot cakes, however the bulls were a different story. The bigger, stouter, growthier bulls sold well, the 4 to 5 frame score bulls had to be very exceptional to get a bid on. I spoke with 2 commercial "buyers" that came to the sale specifically to buy Red Angus bulls, both were going home with empty trailers. When I questioned them they both stated basically the same reason -" these little bulls cost us money when we sell the calves over the scales in the fall." I hope that some of the breeders got a wake up call, IMHO there is no need of a frame score 3 to 4 Red Angus bull in the midwest, I am beginning to question the frame score 5's. Most commercial producers still sell their calves by the pound, it is our job as breeders to produce what our market is looking for. RW

As per usual RW, you make perfect sense. I agree that it is the job of the breeder to produce what the market is looking for. If you don't even try to do this, you are just raising cattle for your own enjoyment and you had better not quite your day job!

Has it ever dawned on anybody that maybe the reason the females were selling like "Hotcakes" was because all those guys at the sale have been spending all their big dollars on the bigger higher performing bulls so they need to buy females back to keep a cowherd together?  Those bigger bulls that are full of grow power sure might have calves that pound the scales in the fall but I damn sure don't want their daughters in my cowherd. 

 

[Till-Hill]

Oh and I forgot, I do think calving more with nature as they say @ PCC is alot less work and will put more money in your pocket. Yes I am allready calving but I have 2 herds. One spring that starts 3-1 and fall herd that starts 8-15 or so. I will say the fall calvers are one heck of alot eaiser! And have yet to use any bedding to calve them out! It just wouldn't make much sense for me to calve in May-June then start again in Aug. Some of us might win a fight with our other half but mother nature will always come out on top.

 

[kfacres]

The only thing I can see positive behind producing these tiny framed, sloppy made cattle.. is a niche market.  Pharo has a niche selling to people like himself, and his buyers have to have a niche selling into something that pays a premium for quality grade, and cares less about performance or shear muscle/ pounds of product

Proud to be a HERD QUITTER!!!!

good cattle are profitable cattle!!!! if you think that supplementing cows and creep feeding calves is profitable you better think again... at 800 plus bulls a year Pharo is far from a niche marketer!!!! if you think those cattle don't perform you better think again!  better study your lessons and either buy a PCC bull or a SJCC bull!  especially if your cows are too big

))

Man I've been waiting to use that one.. everytime you post, you sound dumber and dumber..

what a wonder the breed of cattle I raise has to propigate such rediculous cattle on a mass scale...  too bad, i don't really like the trumps.  you must be joined at the hips to that idiot with BIG PEACHES!

 

[aandtcattle]

The only thing I can see positive behind producing these tiny framed, sloppy made cattle.. is a niche market.  Pharo has a niche selling to people like himself, and his buyers have to have a niche selling into something that pays a premium for quality grade, and cares less about performance or shear muscle/ pounds of product

Proud to be a HERD QUITTER!!!!

good cattle are profitable cattle!!!! if you think that supplementing cows and creep feeding calves is profitable you better think again... at 800 plus bulls a year Pharo is far from a niche marketer!!!! if you think those cattle don't perform you better think again!  better study your lessons and either buy a PCC bull or a SJCC bull!  especially if your cows are too big

So, sjcc, it sounds like you have very similar cattle to pcc.  So do you and Kit trade genetics back and forth?  How many hundreds of straws of American Muscle did Kit use last spring?  Is PCC breeding their heifers as 2 year-olds now too?

 

[kfacres]

I've already said it in another post.. I think the middle of the road is where you need to be.  No tiny ass 4 frames- if you want that- go LOWLINE.. no big ass 7 frames.. If you want that get holsteins... 

the pendulum swings both ways... stay in the middle and you get hit 2x as many times as everyone else- and make an income the entire time.