Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[Doc]

Well they finally put a list on the ASA website.    http://www.shorthorn.org/Images/newsupdates/2014/August/digital%20subluxation/ds_results.pdf

 

[aj]

Thanks Doc. Elbee Leader c087 is a carrier? Thats "Gismo" isn't it?

 

[oakview]

Lots of popular bulls not shown on the list.  I would think many of them would have been DS tested by now.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Agree with Oakview...of course that is important the breeders test and share their results, but popular bulls are very important to be tested.
Think that all bulls offered for AI wold to be tested.

 

[Doc]

Thanks Doc. Elbee Leader c087 is a carrier? Thats "Gismo" isn't it?

Yes , that is Gizmo.  Yea , with 2 shots Improver 3rd, I guess he's lucky he wasn't DSH.

 

[Doc]

Lots of popular bulls not shown on the list.  I would think many of them would have been DS tested by now.

Lonnie, I think when you send in the blood work to test, you have to sign a release form giving the ASA permission to release the results to the public. There is several bulls that I sure wish had been tested. I guess I'm going to send in some semen on some bulls that I have in my tank so I can find out.

 

[oakview]

Doc, you're right.  This was just my polite way of urging some of these folks to LET US KNOW if you want us to continue to buy your cattle.

 

[nativeman]

Deerpark Improver 3rd not a deerpark improver son I do remember from somewhere.total outcross ,even to leader I believe.

 

[Doc]

Deerpark Improver 3rd not a deerpark improver son I do remember from somewhere.total outcross ,even to leader I believe.

Well his papers say he is a Improver son and as being he is DSC , then I would say that is probably right.

 

[nativeman]

That is a mystery than on Deerpark Improver 3rd.I don't think he bloodtyped to Improver or any other known irish bull.That is a good thing for another irish male bloodline.

 

[Doc]

That is a mystery than on Deerpark Improver 3rd.I don't think he bloodtyped to Improver or any other known irish bull.That is a good thing for another irish male bloodline.

That may be true, but all I can go by is what his papers say. Regardless whatever barnyard gossip may be , he is still a DSC and so I would say that he goes back to Improver somewhere.

 

[justintime]

When it comes to cattle from the Irish Shorthorn line, I think we just have to accept them for what they are. I remember trying to buy a particular female in the 70s, when we were buying cattle in Ireland and being told 3 completely different stories of what her sire and dam were. In some cases, I am pretty certain that there was no records, and the Irish breeders made the pedigrees up as they went. Many of the Irish cattle had very accurate pedigrees, but there were some that were simply bogus.  I am not surprised at all about Improver 3rd. I think this happened more than any of us will ever know. IMO, this just emphasizes the importance of testing and posting the results. To me, this is also the main reason why I try to evaluate cattle in the breed on their own merit and not just on whether they carry and asterisk or no asterisk on their registration paper. There are lots and lots of appendix animals that are more pure than some that are registered as non appendix. When the Irish cattle were simply dumped into the closed herd books in Canada and the US, that was when I decided that there was really no such thing as a 100% pure animal in the Shorthorn breed or in any other breed for that matter.  Good cattle are good cattle. We all need to study our lessons and we all need to be testing for defects, so that we can breed and build better cattle for the long run in this business. Far too many people only think of short term gains.

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Ok, everyone-- I have gone back and re-read a bunch of this thread and am having trouble finding what I can't seem to get my head around this morning-- I probably have missed it and you guys are all going to say-- "DUH" -- LOL

From what I am seeing in dealing with DS-- DSC is a carrier- so you have a chance of the defect showing up, the carrier gene being passed on with no symptoms, or coming out DSF when you breed.

DSH-- this is homo-- and you will always get a defect when you breed? 

I know that neither one is good, but which one is the WORSE prognosis of the 2?  DSC or DSH? 

Again thanks for the help-- I just can't find the answer this morning!
EF

 

[RyanChandler]

A dsc will never express any symptoms. Rarely will a DSH exhibit any symptoms.  While there are likely many DSH animals out there, it's my opinion that the percentage of them who's defect will be noticeably expressed will be infinitesimal.

 

[RyanChandler]

Got the DS results on some of my bulls:


HC Vanguard 22Z        DSF

Lushacres Lenny          DSF

XBAR Proletariat 10B    DSF

JSF Maestro 35U          *Still pending

 

[Dale]

Has ASA updated its DS list?  It has been about a month since Doc posted the first one.  It is refreshing to see breeders listing DS test results in the footnotes of their sale catalogs. 

 

[knabe]

XBAR Proletariat 10B    DSF

 

[Doc]

A dsc will never express any symptoms. Rarely will a DSH exhibit any symptoms.  While there are likely many DSH animals out there, it's my opinion that the percentage of them who's defect will be noticeably expressed will be infinitesimal.

Xbar, I've just gone back and reread some posts and glad to see I agree with you on something. I talked with Montie while I was at Shadybrook's sale a couple of weeks ago. I told him that I thought they were making a mountain out of a molehill where DS is concerned. I said that the negative economic impact versus the number of true afflicted calves was no where close. I said that I felt like you had a greater chance of loosing a calf to big birthweight or malpresentation or even a timberwolf than having one showing the symptoms of DS. He said that their concern wasn't as much as a calf being born showing the symptoms as they were with a cow starting to show the symptoms as say a 5 or 7 year old. I asked him to name some cases where that had happened and he really couldn't. Now for me personally , I don't think I am going to stop using a DSC if they have something to offer to improve my cow herd. I will try to not to breed a DSC to a DSC and take the chance of getting a DSH. I think this genetic condition is harder to track in pedigrees than TH or PHA and because of that I think there has been plenty of DSC's bred to DSC's without a visual negative impact. JMHO.

 

[RyanChandler]

Got the DS results on some of my bulls:


HC Vanguard 22Z        DSF

Lushacres Lenny          DSF

XBAR Proletariat 10B    DSF

JSF Maestro 35U          *Still pending

Went ahead and did the complete testing on them.

All are THF and PHAF

Maestro is DSC

I feel the same Doc,  I don't know that I'd buy a dsc bull, just because there's other equivalent options,  but I would have no reservations buying a dsc female.

 

[caledon101]

I recall when the issue of TH was first raised and acknowledged by both North American associations. We had some breeders who passionately believed that every carrier of a genetic defect should be sent to slaughter. And, we had more rational breeders who understood that defects like TH and PHA could be managed. Over time with thoughtful matings these defects could have been made irrelevant.
Looking back, I wish the associations had taken a harder line on this and disallowed the registration of all carrier sires. Trusting breeders and industry leaders to manage this issue on their own has failed.
We are now in a situation where taking aggressive action on TH could generate legal action against the associations. Breeders using the TH gene to compete more effectively in the sale/show rings could make a case of economic loss.
The real concern is that the shorthorn breed is starting to look like a genetic minefield for potential investors.
The only reasonable way forward is to make a rule that all sires must be non carriers from all known defects as of January 1st 2016. No papers otherwise.
This would then make any existing TH carrier females even more valuable. They would be collectors items for those who believe they need the gene to compete.
The problem as it stands today isn't with the associations or their boards. It's with a key group of breeders who won't agree and believe they will be impacted negatively.
That's my view of it.