QAS Traveler 23-4

[librarian]

http://www.angusproductions.com/cat_listings_inline_detail_custom.html?Rid=6427&LID=513516

I was looking at the sale catalog for the Trowbridge sale, and noticed this yearling bull that has 23-4 up close on top and bottom. I'm not buying anything, especially with a 90+ lb birthweight, but I'm interested in the breeding.
Both grand dams would be half sisters to 6807.
In the Sinclair Pennsylvania Unit dispersal, there was a semen sale, and in the catalog, which is huge to download, there was lots of stuff that went to 23-4 (sired by Band 105, sire of 6807) and there were numbers of daughters in production included with the EPD's.  The 23-4 bull had more than any other bull in the collection (9000+) and it seemed that all the bulls that went to him also had many thousands in production.

What were these 23-4 daughters like?  Were they "obese"?

 

[RyanChandler]

I'm pretty critical of an animal but I don't know that I'd change anything about 23-4.  I would wage though that with that head on him,  there's a little something in the wood pile. But whatever it is--it worked. 

Judging from the pics alone, these look more like performance oriented bulls than the grass fed 'obese' types.  I would expect his daughters to be a fairly feminine, refined type.

 

[CAB]

  All 3 of the bulls pictured were / are great bulls that are in many, many pedigrees. I can't really think of any holes to poke at in 23-4. If he were readily available today I would use him on all of my first calf heifers.

 

[knabe]

I would wage though that with that head on him,  there's a little something in the wood pile. But whatever it is--it worked. 

i remember thinking that about his sire in the 80's. just had a completely different look from everything else. almost like darth vader without his hat on.

 

[RyanChandler]

I would wage though that with that head on him,  there's a little something in the wood pile. But whatever it is--it worked. 

i remember thinking that about his sire in the 80's. just had a completely different look from everything else. almost like darth vader without his hat on.

Yup--- there's only 1 breed I know of that has a head like that-

 

[librarian]

Thanks, I found a link to that catalog with the Sinclair Semen Inventory from Pennsylvania.  It really does tell a story.
http://www.angusjournal.com/salebooks/sinclair092113api/files/assets/basic-html/page124.html
Band 234 of Ideal 3163 (Band 105) is also the sire of Tehama Bando 155, who also has that infamous head.

So it must be that Band stuff.
Do you remember Burly Eric?  His name sounds rock solid, anyway.

 

[knabe]

I gotta say that i dont really see a pattern in those bulls except they are very different.

 

[Freddy]

The base of our herd back then was a lot TRAVELER 23-4 ,those cattle were real refined and wouldn't  compare with growth ...Made extra good mothers with less upkeep then Angus now ,more longegevity  and crossed with CHAROLAIS BULLS made great cows producing big calves ....This was one of the most profitable options going then and now....  So much less problems then the Angus of today ,and a lot of the Charolais breeders have worked on calving ease, structure ,fertility and disposition ....A lot of the Angus breeders have copied what the Charolais HAD + a lot of genetic problems also ....  6807 bull had more thickness , and has been mentioned  his mother got stolen about the time someone wanted to blood test her, but you can hear all kinds of rumors ....

 

[genesaw]

We had a couple 23-4 and they were really good easy fleshing cows and great longevity one of our young herd bulls goes back to the one and he is 6frame tank. someone once told me when they pictured those bulls back in the day they would hold them off feed for a day or so to make them appear longer

 

[librarian]

I meant Band 234 of Ideal 3163 (Band 105) is also the sire of Tehama Bando 155. He sure looks like he was holding in his stomach in this picture.
In the pictures of the semen inventory you can see lines of breeding and how certain things come through.
For instance, look at N BAR Prime Time D806
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAD2psOkUyGhvd%2btPqokwKHeqS4uEofx0eVCyY7DTqG%2f%2f&time=LAAAAMdXP7o%2be1Hdvr6fnxrh7zb1xThV9Es60hTWIDB3pWw%2b4F%2b6tOzYK4e%2bvcQPmMadeA%3d%3d
Gosh, now I see it everywhere, in Hero 6267, Paramount Ambush, and Shearbrook Shoshone! I had heard he was goofy on the bottom side.
On to AAR New Trend and beyond. I had thought things got weird about there, but now I see how.
Scotch Cap.  okay, I'm not looking anymore. Why do they pose them all at that same incriminating angle?!

There is a picture of Bemindful Maid on page 98. You tell me what she looks like?
I have to admit these are not the type of cows I would want, except little Papa Envious Blackbird on page 97.  I like her and that is part of the reason I was curious about the bull in the sale. https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAOsFreRsiiHGQqMEd32ylxTEnDg%2bCVHFUSDAV2MMayFW&time=LAAAAMdXP7o%2be1Hdvr6fnxrh7zZbEHHTSFvlAUtFifWKkWQ5k2ne2q5Fc8BpDMrPTeDHlw%3d%3d

To me, the story of the Sinclair semen inventory, was the lack of consistency.  They keep crossing lines this way and that.
But it is interesting to see some pictures, like lot 745, Emulous Arrowhead 194, who is recessive trait free.
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=EgAAABLIQYm4%2fzFnAkb5TKUAkQ7hUBd%2bKChhOo%2buo4gyAMYP&time=KgAAAMdXP7o%2be1Hdvr6fnxrh7zbd%2fZt2sU6KfNdHdCAp0WoBQ2ep0ysfrPMAgA4ihlkLsw%3d%3d
the catalog says
" This Pathfinder Sire withWR 123 and YR 112,
blended the Emulous and Elban sire lines, sired
by a leading son of the legendary Emulous Bob
of K Pride from a dam by Elban Bardolier 18 of
Moore, and he was tested free of genetic defects
through matings with 35 of his own daughters"

 

[librarian]

More pictures.
I couldn't make the sale today, but I have learned a lot by studying QAS Traveler 23-4.