Shorthorn Bull Opinions

[huntaway]

Other than having more sheath than I would like I thought this guy looked alright what are your thoughts.

http://glenrossie.co.nz/2014shorthornsalebulls.html

 

[RyanChandler]

I like his front 2/3rd pretty well.  There are some pretty nice bulls on that site. I don't know that the one you've asked about is one of the betters offered.  Not looking at the ebvs, Hamilton 12005 would be my pick.

 

[beebe]

He is a nice looking bull.  I would be curious as to what his frame score is. 

 

[Okotoks]

I like the looks of that bull. He could carry a bit more muscle expression but of course that depends how you are going to cross him. I was looking at the EPD's of some of the cattle and trying to get an idea how they compared so looked at Eionmor Mr Gus 80C in three different registries. I assume the differnces are due to how he compares in each population which would mean calving ease is better in the New Zealand population. I am thinking of flusing our Eionmor Ruby 48T to 80C. She is a grand daughter of 80C. She is also a daughter of Eionmor Masterpiece 36K that shows up a ways back in that bull's pedigree! Did you use Eionmor Mr Gus 80C?
Eionmor Mr Gus 80C
New Zealand / Australia EBVs
CE    CEDTRS    GL  BW  200  400  600  Mat  Milk  SC    Carc  Eye RibF  Rump Retail  IMF
-0.6 +5.2  -0.6 +2.4 +24 +37 +43 +82 -5 +1.6 +34 +3.9 +0.7 +0.8   -0.2 +1.6
Britain EBVs
+4.6  -5.9        -1.1 +1.0 +19  +27  +28 +39  -2    -1.0  +18  +    +0.2  +0.2  -1.0      +0.1
American EPD's
CE    MCE                  BW    WW  YW                Milk  MW    CWT    RE      Fat    Marb
+7.5  +11.8              -0.3    +20  +32              +1    +11  -5      -0.02  0.0    +0.1

 

[huntaway]

Thanks for commenting, no one really does frame scores here so only going off what I've read and seen of this site I would say he would be at least a 6 probably a 7.

Xbar. Is it just the muscling of his hindquarter or is the something structural your seeing? Numbers are a consideration for me in particular the higher rib and rump which has been a bit of a focus for us and lower scrotal sizes on some of the other bulls wouldn't help what I think is a weakness on some of our females.
12005 is the outlier of the group way ahead at all weights and being white and horned has only stayed a bull because they thought he was good.

Okotoks, Most of the females I would use him on are pretty strong for muscle and muscle shape so more looking at him on type and why I look within that herd.
Gus80c was the first bull brought in to add fat. Before my time I have only used and seen grandsons which probably had to much influence from the other side of the pedigree as they where still lean with a lot of growth. A bull I would like to see used over the cows I have now not what he was used over at the time.
The EBV numbers themselves are not worth much it more about the percentiles and how they compare to breed ave., We have him below ave for BWT and about ave for CE and very good for CED. Don't know if our population would be any better calving ease than the others.

 

[RyanChandler]

His attachment from his middle third to His rear third is what seems odd to me. I bet, on the move, his top looks like a roller coaster. I'm a stickler for a stout topline.

Surely you don't think it's coincidental that I picked the 12005 bull without seeing any ebvs or actual numbers.  8) He's phenotypically the best bull in the group and it's his superior phenotypical traits that enable his superior functionality.

 

[Warrior10]

I like his front 2/3rd pretty well.  There are some pretty nice bulls on that site. I don't know that the one you've asked about is one of the betters offered.  Not looking at the ebvs, Hamilton 12005 would be my pick.

I agree with XBAR here. Really like the makeup of his front 2/3rds, would like to see how that middle to rear flows when he is on the move. Still a good bull.

 

[Mill Iron A]

He lacks truly good rib shape and he is high in his loin

 

[huntaway]

Thanks for the explanation, will be interesting to see him in the flesh with those comments in mind in July.

Dan, re thought your EBV comment and think that the different registries do have different strengths which you would expect with different environments and selection pressures. Not sure about calving ease but I think early growth 2 and 400 day growth are stronger in Canada, Australasia has more out to 600 and probably gives a higher mature weight.  I think milk would be higher down here and Gus's ebv may back that up think +2 is breed ave up there. Most of the recent Canadian bulls are scanning pretty good for imf so maybe  that is a strength up there.

 

[huntaway]

What are your thoughts of this guy, Pretty  heavily influenced buy North America and saw the dam sell at the Austins dispersal and was quite a good cow.
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=35383E28&2=2934&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5A5C5B25202F2E2F&9=52515F50&11=53525A&12=4342415C

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Id like to see him from behind,but hes a good looking bull.-I used to use bulls like Sprys Cyclone and others and the calves were absolutely TERRIBLE-and Cyclone and his dam were awesome animals-they just didnt mix with the cattle then at all-other than those with Enticer or Deertrail Awesome in the pedigree:and other than Eskimo Joes grandsire-who was an Aussie main cross-I loved the hiefers echodale brought down in 1992-or 1993 out of him.Theres a good bit of the Waukaru Gold breeding mixed with the easy fleshing Canadian breeding on this one-and I think JMO-thats why it worked so well:you can see the Canadian in his rib,and head just for starters O0

 

[RyanChandler]

Buy the white bull!! <party>

 

[Duncraggan]

From the pictures, I like the Wagman 12071 bull at the bottom of the catalogue!

 

[RyanChandler]

From the pictures, I like the Wagman 12071 bull at the bottom of the catalogue!

He's nice-- a little too compact for my liking though-- I'd like to pull on both ends of him a bit,, stretch Armstrong like-

 

[mark tenenbaum]

My pom poms shake for the first white bull,and the RWM wagman <party> O0

 

[huntaway]

From the pictures, I like the Wagman 12071 bull at the bottom of the catalogue!

The breeders like this bull as well. We breed the sire and the Wagman line isn't one we would go back to, we had to many issues with temprement  and eyes had no hooding. The sire himself seemed fine until after the sale when he was left at home by himself for a while and started to play up and I guess his pedigree came through.

Buy the white bull!! <party>

I do like the photo of the white bull but horns aren't what im after. Would also be concerned that outlier growth would mean outlier BWT  and he doesn't carry the fat to match that growth. They don't weigh at birth so BWT could be anything.

Don't know much about Sprys Cyclone. He doesn't seem to have made much of an impact so maybe breeders had the same experience as you.

Got plenty of semen to use so might go with that option if I don't like them in the flesh, thanks for your comments.

 

[sue]

From the photos I think both are very deep bodied bulls and you should take one side step to the left when you snap the next shot? It's difficult to capture any other dimension with dead on 100% profile shots .  thanks for sharing.

 

[librarian]

I want the RWM Wagman too.