Shorty Folks

Help Support Steer Planet:

How important or desirable would it be for you to be able to acquire asterisks free genetics? WOuld

  • asterisks free more likely purchase

    Votes: 26 36.1%
  • Not likely to change my purchase

    Votes: 14 19.4%
  • Doesnt matter to me either way

    Votes: 32 44.4%

  • Total voters
    72

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
In my opinion, the consistently best Shorts I have produced are appendix and all of them would certainly qualify for exhibit in the USA but not in Canada where different rules have been applied to keep them out. The problem with purebred breeding of Shorts in Canada is not the infusion of Maine genetics; it's the infusion of emotion, nostalgia and tradition combined with the fear of change.
A good animal is a good animal and if someone wants to worship this whole non-appendix illusion it doesn't bother me provided they equally understand that there are fellow breeders who feel differently. There is room in the Shorthorn breed for all.
It is sad when I hear about long established breeding operations criticizing appendix animals. There is no such thing as "100%" purity. Even a bar of gold is clearly stamped "99.99%" pure.
When someone starts talking to me about their "100%" pure Shorthorns I respectfully listen but also realize I am getting a religious sermon. I know it's not me they are trying to convince; it's themselves. 

Even the most carefully managed Herd Book and Registry has a margin of error. Semen can be mixed up accidentally, bull calves might breed cows in the herd before weaning, the neighbours bull jumps the fence....and so on. Honest mistakes happen. The mandatory DNA testing of all Shorthorn sires in Canada turned up a few surpises.
The Shorthorn breed needs to focus on birth weight issues.

I believe that the breed in Canada needs to take a hard look internally and make a sincere effort to bring positive changes. Like any competent business, it's time to confront the brutal facts and put EVERYTHING on the table for open discussion without pointing fingers or blame...or, treating people like heretics because they dare to put forth new ideas. And I mean EVERYTHING should be open for discussion.


 

aj

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
6,420
Location
western kansas
I was going to say that I bet every animal has an honest or dishonest mistake in the pedigree. That makes your appendix free aniimal a mutt?
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,639
Location
Hollister, CA
aj said:
I was going to say that I bet every animal has an honest or dishonest mistake in the pedigree. That makes your appendix free aniimal a mutt?

You were going to say it?  Then what happened.

Your continual obsession with asterisk's is stupid. Your own herd is mutt based and now you are thinking of starting an asterisk mutt breed.

Please explain this discordance.

All breeds are asterisk based and they are all auroch. It's just a matter of generations.

You really offer nothing for the cattle industry. All you have to offer is why the people who do shouldn't be allowed to based upon your unvoted upon rules and your lack of participation in running for office by convincing members you have the ideas to take a breed forward.
 

Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
605
Location
Rio Grande - RS - Brazil
Guys, why so many discussion?

Use or not use asterisk free or non-asterisk free is a personnal choice!

Also, what was done in past is immutable, so....why discuss it again. Irish was infusioned and by time that it could be deeply discussed, was not did...why? Don't know and now has not importance, was done!

Personnaly not agree with some comments regading purity personal views as like all breeds are mixed since early ages, etc..., to me is a shortcut to try explain a personal view.

We have bad asterisk free cattle, as we also have bad asterisk ones. I'm tired of seeing horrible animals on Shorthorn Magazine or in lots websites describing these beasts as "perfect"-"awesome".....asterisks and non asterisks! And surely never would be able to use these (asterisks and non asterisks) on my herd as they are steers for me!

For me, the most important is produce cattle, good cattle that will bring more guys for the breed.

For me is most important have confidence on pedigrees, that I will use on my herd. Is important that new breeders show confidence on what pedigrees are, and what predicable DEP's will produce.

Discuss personal lines criteria is lost of time, as each part will be always the true owner. Polarize this matter is not salutary for the breed.

So do your better to produce the better for your customers and enviroment, by other hand will to be all blá blá blá.

We must be honest! Not partidaries! Be honest with your pedigres, with your data collection and you will to be a good breeder.
 

RyanChandler

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
3,457
Location
Pottsboro, TX
caledon101 said:
In my opinion, the consistently best Shorts I have produced are appendix and all of them would certainly qualify for exhibit in the USA but not in Canada where different rules have been applied to keep them out. The problem with purebred breeding of Shorts in Canada is not the infusion of Maine genetics; it's the infusion of emotion, nostalgia and tradition combined with the fear of change.
A good animal is a good animal and if someone wants to worship this whole non-appendix illusion it doesn't bother me provided they equally understand that there are fellow breeders who feel differently. There is room in the Shorthorn breed for all.
It is sad when I hear about long established breeding operations criticizing appendix animals. There is no such thing as "100%" purity. Even a bar of gold is clearly stamped "99.99%" pure.
When someone starts talking to me about their "100%" pure Shorthorns I respectfully listen but also realize I am getting a religious sermon. I know it's not me they are trying to convince; it's themselves. 

Even the most carefully managed Herd Book and Registry has a margin of error. Semen can be mixed up accidentally, bull calves might breed cows in the herd before weaning, the neighbours bull jumps the fence....and so on. Honest mistakes happen. The mandatory DNA testing of all Shorthorn sires in Canada turned up a few surpises.
The Shorthorn breed needs to focus on birth weight issues.

I believe that the breed in Canada needs to take a hard look internally and make a sincere effort to bring positive changes. Like any competent business, it's time to confront the brutal facts and put EVERYTHING on the table for open discussion without pointing fingers or blame...or, treating people like heretics because they dare to put forth new ideas. And I mean EVERYTHING should be open for discussion.

Do you mean Asterick or are you really talking appendix?
 

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
Sorry.... meant asterik!....same thing as the appendix designation though......  Have a super day!
 

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
-XBAR- said:
caledon101 said:
Sorry.... meant asterik!....same thing as the appendix designation though......  Have a super day!

Far from the same thing- a great day to you as well!
[/quote

The ASA puts an asterik on anything less than 127/128th right? Anything below that is bred up from or contains non-Shorthorn ancestry in the pedigree.
Appendix is the same thing is it not?
Asterik or Appendix....both definitions are defined by their respective associations as having less than 99% "purity"??
 
J

JTM

Guest
caledon101 said:
-XBAR- said:
caledon101 said:
Sorry.... meant asterik!....same thing as the appendix designation though......  Have a super day!

Far from the same thing- a great day to you as well!
[/quote

The ASA puts an asterik on anything less than 127/128th right? Anything below that is bred up from or contains non-Shorthorn ancestry in the pedigree.
Appendix is the same thing is it not?
Asterik or Appendix....both definitions are defined by their respective associations as having less than 99% "purity"??
Currently the ASA designates anything 93.75% (15/16) or higher as purebred. Below that is apppendix registered. Not sure on the asterisk free but will take your word that it is 127/128.
 
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