Showmanship

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twistedhshowstock

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May 2, 2011
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758
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Nacogdoches, TX
I never ask an entire class to switch...if I am judging a big showmanship and I get some kids at the top that are all doing really good, then I may ask them to switch calves, but not if one of the calves is really acting up. However if their all doing good then the one whose calf is acting up is probably gonna get pulled below the other anyway.  When I ask them to switch calves I am really looking to see if they step back and look the calf over, make sure the grooming is in order, and study the calf for a second to decide how to best present them.  Oh and I would never even begin to ask anyone other than the oldest class to switch calves.
 

wyatt

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Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
1,409
Location
michigan
i worked with my calf at home and he was doing fine hes been to other shows to so it wasnt his first rodeo and alot of steers just dont like the way our ring is designed
and its really small
                                                                          announcer here

wall here
                                                                            ring here
                                                                                                                                                          fence here that you can see out of


                                                                        bleachers here
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
24
All the prior advice is fantastic and it basically sums it all up! But one thing I have learned, especially this year at my county fair, is that if you have worked your hardest, busted your butt in the show ring and out of the show ring, you should be proud of what you have done and not be disapointed when you dont recieve the placing you would have prefered. Just go into that ring doing your best, always having fun, and the outcome will be what it is. Do the work at home and you WILL get repaid in the end. You can never practice with your calf enough on setting up and leading. Always stay calm and be consistent. Good luck!!
 

sammie smith

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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
9
My suggestion would be to watch a showmanship class that might go before you show. Learn what the judge is doing and looking for. Each judge is different and looks for different things. GOOD LUCK!
 

vc

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Jul 24, 2007
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1,811
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So-Cal
A little off the subject: At our fair they use exhibitors animals for the Round Robin showing, the usually use the calves from our club because they are gentle and been handled allot more than some others. My sons steer was used (My son Won senior showmanship with his Steer) in the first class for steers the juniors showed, a nine year old boy had my sons steer, he led and set up perfect for the boy. In the second class it was the seniors (my son did not use his own steer) a girl used his steer, he started out fine and then she tried to pull him instead of lead him, big mistake, he hit the breaks would not move . The ring steward and a helper tried to push him, no luck. They had the girl switch to a steer not in use and asked my son if he could move him, he walked up took the lead gave a slight lift to the halter and release and off they went to the rail.

I think this is why they usually switch kids and animals, it is only the top 3 to 5 kids in the finals that they do this with. I think they are looking to see if the exhibitor can adjust their style to the animal to get the most out of it, find it's faults and hide them, and maintain their cool. I think they should only use questions when it comes down to splitting hairs and the questions should not be overly complicated, but something they should know.
 

twistedhshowstock

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Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Nacogdoches, TX
1) No the calf acting up is not always a sign that the exhibitor didnt put in the work at home.  Young cattle often act up even if they have been worked, something may have spooked the calf and just have it on edge the rest of the day, and just like people sometimes cattle just have a bad day. Now for me if I get down to my top 5 and they are really close and one of thems calf is acting up, they are probably gonna be 5th. I am not going to ask another exhibitor to switch and take a calf that is acting up.  The purpose for asking really close ones to switch is to see which ones are truly good showmen, and which ones have just been trained to walk around the ring and smile beside a calf that does everything on its on. Its a sad fact, but we must face it that how a calf looks or behaves in a ring is no indicator of how much work the kid leading it has done at home anymore.  More often or not I think a lot of the calves that have issues are being shown by kids who really try but just dont know what their doing and have no help or support. While at the same time there are a lot of kids with great looking, good haired, well behaved cattle who couldnt even tell you where the barn at home is...only the hired help would know.
2) For me questions depend on age.  The purpose of these shows and projects is not just to teach a kid about how to walk around the ring with an animal, its to teach them about responsibility, life skills, and about the industry.  How man times do we say "These exhibitors in the ring right now are the future of our industry."? Do you want the future of our industry to not know anything about the industry?  I ask questions to ALL age groups and to ALL exhibitors in the class.  Their questions change with age group.  PeeWees only get asked their animals name and if they are having fun. Juniors I expect to know how often and aproximately how much their animal eats, what their daily routine is, name, breed, age of animal,and if females are bred.  If they get really close I may ask Junior some basic parts of the cow or how many parts of the stomach there are.  Intermediate I expect to know all that same information plus know how much and what the animal is eating, and know a little more of the anatomy, I also feel like they should be able to tell me the 4 parts of the stomach and how long a cow is pregnant.  The Srs always get asked the age, breed, sire, sire of calf, how much they eat, what they eat(most can even tell me Protein and Fat %) if a heifer is bred they should know to which bull, they should know all the external anatomy, they should know what EPD's are.  If they get really close I may ask them about a big topic in the industry currently, but honestly I have never gotten that far, and I think we are doing these kids an injustice.

A lot of parents who pay the help and want to buy the show want to say that these kids are to young to learn all this. Let me tell you what happened a few weeks ago at a Jackpot I judged.  A young man that is on here fairly frequently just flat showed the hair off his heifer, and when I asked him questions I had to stop him, he started answering me and I looked at him and told him, I never even know that much info about my cows.  When I asked Sire and Dam of his heifer, he not only gave me names, but Reg #s and who owned them, When I asked him what EPD's were he not only knew what they were, how they were helpful, he started reciting his Heifers specific EPD's.  This young man is only 15 and in his first yr of being in the Sr class...not only could he answer all my questions but he could explain them, in detail.  His one fatal flaw, he forgot to take his baseball cap off before coming in the ring.  If you know me as a judge, you know this is a big big mistake to me, but he did so well I still used him as Reserve Sr Showman ball cap and all.  Whats more impressive is this kid doesnt really have a background in cattle, he has pretty much taught himself. I also have an 8 yr old I am helping that can answer questions in the ring that some of the breeders 16 and 17 yr old childrens cant, and those kids have been at this their whole life, this 8 yr old has been doing 4 months.  Now his answers arent always text book.  His heifer has been pasture exposed, but not sure she is bred, when judges ask if she is bred he often responds with "We dont know but she been with her boyfriend!" May not be textbook but he answered the questions. 

So now that I wrote this novel, I guess my point is not only do I agree with asking questions, I think they are vital part of it.  If we arent gonna ask questions and expect the kids to learn something about the project then why waste our time and money with jr shows, just have an open show let em judge the calves and go.  We have the jr shows so that kids can learn and to promote education.  Its just like school, if teachers never gave tests the kids would never bother to learn anything.  Those questions in the show ring are often times the only tests the kids in these projects get.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
24
I agree with twistedhshowstock. As someone that loves showmanship and works year round to do my best, I always appreciate the judges that ask questions. I know of many instances that I have been frustrated with those kids that win showmanship with calves that they have their parents work with and they touch them maybe a couple times a month. I feel that questions can separate between the people that do truly work with their animals and those that dont.
 

Pipeliner

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May 11, 2011
Messages
59
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Hmmm...... K well I'm pulling a little bit more towards the question asking now. I can see more of a point. I guess i tend to forget that most Jr. Shows down in the states differ from most of them up here. Not all but most of the Jr. Shows up here including all the Natioal shows.( angus, Simmi, shorty, chars, limo and the rest) have 0 parent participation. If you are over the age of 21 you are only allowed to set up and tear down stall. All the feeding, washing, blowing, fitting and everything else is done by the Jr. themselves. The parents are allowed to hire another Jr. member to help but not over the age of 21 and the parent is allowed to tell the kids when to feed and wash but aren't allowed to do it.  They also have so called "undercover judges" that walk around the barns and ask those kind of questions to the kids exhibiting the cattle. The judge isn't revealed til the end. It's part of a competition they call the Canadian National Young Cattlemen of the Year. You qualify out of your breed then they have a big competition at the Jr. National All Breeds show held at the end of summer that test all the questions your asking, different problem solving and industry topics. It's a really good deal and any Jr. That has won it is more then deserving of it cause there is 5 Jrs behind them that are as good as the winner. So without something like that in place I can see for more questions in showmanship. Because it does bug me to see kids that have put in no effort other then showing up at the ring asking which one is their's, and win a banner their parents bought. I also know that you can work with a calf day in and day out and for some reason it doesn't cooperate with you........ I've been there haha all in all, I can see the point of asking questions way more in showmanship when there isn't a program like the Young Cattleman running at the show and kids are allowed to just show up at the ring and show. 99% of the kids up here that are showing in the senior class have driven themselves to the show set up, teared down and done everything else in between and including helping the younger members aren't there cause someone else has done the work for them at home.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
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Wow pipeliner, I'm envious of that program!!! I'm sure some people dislike it but for someone who does all their own fitting, showing, and daily care, I would really love to be able to be involved in something like that. But for us the best way we can do that is thru the little bit of contact in the show arena when it comes to showmanship. It's what makes showmanship so difficult frustrating, but also fun to compete in!!
 

Pipeliner

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May 11, 2011
Messages
59
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Haha thanks JB! It's a pretty cool deal there is alot of different competitions that I think are cool and challenge Jrs. to think outside the box. The biggest thing is that at the Jr. Shows the fitting and clipping is on a whole not as good as the ones down in the states because all the Jrs have to do there own fitting. But everyones learning the best way to learn and that's to do it. The old motto is: learn to do by doing. I know I appreciated going threw it. I know there is people that are against not allowing people over the age of 21 to particapate in Jr shows but maybe that's a thread that can be started haha
 

wyatt

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Apr 25, 2011
Messages
1,409
Location
michigan
jblivestock2012 said:
Wow pipeliner, I'm envious of that program!!! I'm sure some people dislike it but for someone who does all their own fitting, showing, and daily care, I would really love to be able to be involved in something like that. But for us the best way we can do that is thru the little bit of contact in the show arena when it comes to showmanship. It's what makes showmanship so difficult frustrating, but also fun to compete in!!
ditto alot of the county fairs here do stuff like that but i wish they would make the kids do everything! kindof like me i show up at the fair bright and early do my own chores and then still get chewed out by the barn superviser because i didnt have a thankyou sighn up when all the other kids around me do nothing hardly clean there pens and have there parents lead there calf and then the pepole behind me i help do there chores  morning and night because they are to lazy to do them and there parents get tired of it and im not the only one i wish kids would want to take care of the cattle and want to feed it but no they are just in it for the money
 

mick rems

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Mar 14, 2011
Messages
139
come judge my show twistedshowstock. its always been me and another girl that go back and forth with winning ever since i started showing. its always really close and i luv the questions to be honest. and i wouldnt mind the switch thing. ALL TIME FAV ? is How many steers are born in the USA annually? it makes people think haha.
 

twistedhshowstock

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Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Nacogdoches, TX
LOL...I would love to come judge...just get your fair officials to call me up...lol...I have experience judging everything, beef, dairy, hogs, goats, lambs, horses...probably most comfortable in the beef and hog rings...but I absolutely love judging a good showmanship!
 

mick rems

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Mar 14, 2011
Messages
139
twistedhshowstock said:
LOL...I would love to come judge...just get your fair officials to call me up...lol...I have experience judging everything, beef, dairy, hogs, goats, lambs, horses...probably most comfortable in the beef and hog rings...but I absolutely love judging a good showmanship!

haha cool all i show now is the beef, i showed pigs two yrs, but i dont have the time to run the beef and pigs. i still help out some friends with their hogs. we run a two yrs of having the same judge with the beef at our fair for some reason. plus is this yr i know wat the judge liked last yr and my steer is similar but better than my reserve last yr. and i would totally try to get them to call u up haha.
 

twistedhshowstock

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May 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Nacogdoches, TX
A lot of shows run a 2 yr turn on judges...there is one fair that this will be the first time in 4 yrs not judging there, I was there 2 yrs judging cattle and then 2 yrs judging hogs, lambs, and goats.
 

mick rems

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Mar 14, 2011
Messages
139
twistedhshowstock said:
A lot of shows run a 2 yr turn on judges...there is one fair that this will be the first time in 4 yrs not judging there, I was there 2 yrs judging cattle and then 2 yrs judging hogs, lambs, and goats.

wow. i know we dont have the same pig and sheep judge 2 yrs in a row, or for the dairy for that matter. gotta love the dairy state. lol. beef cattle are way better then the dairy.
 

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