Sign of the times

[aj]

Times are a changing with the embryo transplant deal. I'm not saying its good or bad but it is a fact. I know I viewed a sale catalog of a Shorthorn production sale. There were 30 some lots advertised for sale. Three lots of the 35 head head had the owners prefix in the pedigree. Again I'm not saying it's good or bad. So basically the breeders went out and bought some females...had calves and had a production sale. I know it is the sign of the times and it is not really a show steer deal but embryo transfer has really changed things. It gets people to their goals fast. I do think it takes out the natural selection process with udders, fleshing ability, longevity, fertility and everthing else. I always thought it was cool in a Cates sale or a Hubs shorthorn sale when 4 or 5 generations back the breeder had his prefix and they had a methodical breeding program with indexes and culling procedures and whatnot. Again I'm not saying its wrong or right but it is a sign of the times. I do think that it can lead to a larger gap between the commercial industry sometimes. Is the time of the Ora Erdman and Bob Sitz or Line 1 herfords over? Is embryo transfer kinda backing us away from improvement in some things? And as the great Robert Bird once said" There is to too much impregnation going on out there.

 

[knabe]

to me, ET is a form of line breeding.  it can be type to type, or nick to nick and may just be a faster way to get where linebreeders used to get.  ET allows pedigrees to get out there faster.

 

[aj]

Good point. It is amazing how much faster breeding programs can push now.

 

[JbarL]

i got started with 2 pred hifers and 1 bred cow..and 1 6 month old  bull calf  (registered)  in march of 07 ( member here since april of 07)...."buying" genitics right off the bat, seemed to level the playing field with alot of long time locals.....i  then took two years to bull bred my pbreds...and awaiting my first maine crosses .... and one simmi cross....along the way last year i partnered with a guy who is way ahead of the curve in genetics than i .....and we wnet on the halves on  4 bred pb ( not registered ) angus...the purpose was to buy as recips....( my first adventure)...needless to say...2 are at his place with eggs in them and 2 are at my place with a pb maine sire..( bull bred).......it didnt work out for me this year.....i actually swapped out my interests for 2 of his heifers already crossed up......but to the point aj  your right .....even from 700 miles..."if" i wanted ..to i could have....its just a matter of money and time ....not a good time for me to start a project like that from here though.. next year maybe......lets hope the commercial side will use all its tools avaliable and "freshen up there herds" real quick like......seems my "older" neighbors are just now seeing the math of ai'ing... but the money/odds part of et  is just not in there blood"bird in the hand"  per say...times they are a changin' for sure....seems like a good deal to me  for me...the techs are excited about doing it and the customers seem happy with the odds..... i hope for its success especially in commercial market..and  maybe  we could clone sen bryd and maybe get some cut loose fiddle players... ....jbarl

 

[linnettejane]

And as the great Robert Bird once said" There is to too much impregnation going on out there.

(lol) (lol) (lol) thats pretty funny stuff right there! 

 

[Show Heifer]

ET has made it possible to have a sale in a hotel. You can actually go to a cattle sale WITHOUT SEEING ANY REAL CATTLE.

I too, am disappointed in the fact that (IMO) true breeding programs seem to be disappearing. You can not longer go to a production sale and actually buy true breeder genetics. It is true, to start you have to buy genetics. That is a given. But with exceptions, someone should be able to  build their own program, with their own goals in mind. But instead, it seems they buy embryos and label them as their own.  Maybe that is called foresight?

I like the good ol' days when you would go cattle sale, go through the pens and not the catalog,  sit in seats and watch the cattle move in and out of the ring. You back a trailer up and load actual animals up and go home. You take home cattle, not a piece of paper saying you own some embryos.  

Maybe its progress, maybe not.

 

[linnettejane]

and  maybe  we could clone sen bryd and maybe get some cut loose fiddle players... ....jbarl

wash your mouth out with soap!!!   (lol) (lol) (lol)  please dont post such ideas...you know our state had a $22 million surplus in its budget this year, half they are stashing away, the other $11 million they are trying to decide what to do with it...its not enough that his name is plastered over every new state building, highway, and bridge built...but to clone him!!!!!!!!!!  oh i can just see it now...(shaking head)... (lol)

 

[linnettejane]

I like the good ol' days when you would go cattle sale, go through the pens and not the catalog,  sit in seats and watch the cattle move in and out of the ring. You back a trailer up and load actual animals up and go home. You take home cattle, not a piece of paper saying you own some embryos.  

Maybe its progress, maybe not.

its called the stock yards here...

 

[aj]

I think the embryo transfer deal is good. You can multiply the top 10% of the genetics. Is embryo transfer fertility the same as natural world fertility. Is a cow that flushes 20 viable eggs better than a cow that breeds back every year naturally or are they the same fertility wise. Or is is just how they react to drugs. I've always wondered about the effiency markers that are out there. Aren't the effiency tests to develop the markers done in a feedlot....so the markers are identified as effiency on a grain ration. Would cattle on grass be the same or could there be a difference there? I think one thing that makes Shorthorn cattle are the small embryo transfer herds. How many heatseekers and trumps and rodeo drives can we have out there untill the market is saturated and thus values of cattle drop? Or is it such an expanding demand for the cattle that the market dictates more and more of them.

 

[knabe]

Aren't the effiency tests to develop the markers done in a feedlot....so the markers are identified as effiency on a grain (whatever they are being fed and weighted) ration. Would cattle on grass be the same or could there be a difference there?

figure out a way to measure what a cow eats in a pasture and how to weigh it and you will have something.  it's probably important to select a cow with wider muzzle to eat more grass per footfall.

 

[Dusty]

I like the good ol' days when you would go cattle sale, go through the pens and not the catalog,  sit in seats and watch the cattle move in and out of the ring. You back a trailer up and load actual animals up and go home. You take home cattle, not a piece of paper saying you own some embryos.  

I don't know where you live, but where I live there are sales all the time where you go through cattle in pens and then bid on them when they come in the ring.  You can go to a PB or clubby cow sale about every weekend from Dec thru March if you want to.

 

[Beach Limousin]

I believe embreo transfer has its place, but I still believe in buying from people that have a breeding program and are dedicated to selecting for all the right traits, not just putting in embreos of popular genetics. It does seem though that more and more ranches are just buying and selling popular genetics/cattle, rather than buy quality cattle and developing a breeding program. Not shure if its good or bad, but it seems to be a sign of the times.

 

[the angus111]

I guess I am confused.The reason I BUY embryos is because I like the breeding programs and the genetics offered.For instance there is a person who is a regular on this,he has a shortie cow that intriuged me and he had a mating to salute,i bought the embryos.is that not buying into a program?i got 2 heifers out of it.is there risk?sure but any body that deals with cattle knows the risk .rusty

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

I think its better to have embryo programs, because it gives more people a change to get their hands on a paticular strain of genetics. Well all cant buy one of the top sellers at the WHR sale, but we sure as hell can get a full sib born the same month. The old days are gone, and im glad for it, no more freaky cattle that dont perform. The only way i want to remember the old days is in a 20 year old Rodeo Drive straw.

 

[aj]

I wonder how cheap cloning will get.....where is it now 20,000$? If it would get down to 5,000$.....wouldn't that shake up the purebred world a little. Would technology ever get where commercial producers would ever embryo transplant? I doubt that. But what if........you could by a clone of the best feedlot steer in the world for a small price......or transfers.....if you knew they would go prime...yield grade 3....gather a 400$ premium for a carcass? Would you take the award winning feedlot steer and clone him? I still think that on the commercial cow side it is best to turn out 100 cows under strict natural selection and see which ones match the enviroment.....but hey thats just me. ;D

 

[kanshow]

I think the breeding programs are still there, ET is just another facet of them.    If I want to buy into that program bad enough, I'll buy an embryo (or a pair or an older cow) if that is the way they are selling their genetics.    However, more often than not, we are facing a more short-term problem... ie, needing another show heifer for the year.  An embryo just won't work for us so we go out looking for the individual rather than the program. 

 

[OH Breeder]

I think ET programs offer the little guy an opportunity to gain world class genetics. In a short matter of time you can leap frog your program light years ahead of where it would be if you were breeding and culling. I think it is amazing how far we come. I am not sure that ET programs will replace good old fashion breeding and selection due to the cost. Still is relatively high, I think, to buy implant and take a risk on eggs.

I think Cloning will explode in the future and like everything else become cheaper- Look at VCR's when they came out they were expensive. You can get one under 50 bucks.Plasma TV's couple grand when first came out. You can get a nice one for around $500. I think cloning will become more economical the more efficient they become with it.