Trump Three

[RyanChandler]

Woodland, first and foremost - if your gonna advertise your website, you might want to make a point to publish it first.  Secondly, 'influential' doesn't necessarily carry a positive connotation...and in the case it definitely doesn't.   Like I said, only 2 hd have trump influence: PRC Shadow and PRC Foxy Daisy 09.  I didn't bash any cattle.  I clearly stated that this bull will decrease the fleshing ability in cattle.  If you can't form the same conclusion based off the bull's phenotype then you're not half the cattlemen you think you are.  

The website isn't advertised, it only on my profile. And I just took it down a few weeks ago because I am in the works of having a professional one done. As soon as its done ill email you the link so you can complain about that as well. And influential in this case did carry a positive atribute. Ask anyone that has a big name in this breed. I can't see where this bull will take all the fleshing ability off of a cow. From his picture he will probably not make them hog fat but that was never even mentioned. You are bashing this bull just the way you did with firewater. Give it a rest! We really don't all have to do things exactly like you! Maybe your not half the cattleman you think you are. And obviously you think very highly of yourself. I have my program headed in the direction I want it headed. There is always more to learn about cattle tho. Maybe you should think about that.

You're right. Neither any Trump son or Firewater carry enough capacity to be viable option in the beef industry. 

I'm been fortunate enough to have a few real deal cattleman instill in me lifetimes worth of cattle sense.  The devil is in the details and your post is glowing with a lack of incite.  You can't see where the bull will take away fleshing ability? Well here let me show you.  The initial indicator is his proportion of body to leg.  This bull is easily 50/50.  Anytime you start getting less than 2/3rds body , you will have an animal whose phenotype prohibits a roughage only diet.  These animals don't have enough internal capacity to consume enough roughage to meet their daily requirements.  That's why these type of cattle must be fed a denser feedstuff.

And most importantly, I could care less if you do anything like me or not.  What I won't do is sit back while a bunch of doll house cattle queens try to pass off these flat sided bulls as viable options in the beef industry. 

Ps.  I'm dying to know what the dairymans intentions were by using a bull like that?  You Prolly had him convinced he was the same type of bull as the good milking roan durhams of his childhood  :

 

[sizzler14]

First you bash Trump, Now Firewater? Legends! Thats like saying Lebron and Michael Jordan suck at basketball. XBAR you wouldnt know a good bull if he head butted you in the ass!

 

[Doc]

Ps.  I'm dying to know what the dairymans intentions were by using a bull like that?  You Prolly had him convinced he was the same type of bull as the good milking roan durhams of his childhood  :

I don't have any idea why the bull got bred to some Holsteins. I just know that Al Bullis who owned the bull at the time and who I bought the bull from told me that he had. You know I didn't post the pic of the bull for your approval, I posted it because someone was looking for it. He may not be your type , but he worked for me and some others. Once again just because you don't like an animal doesn't mean that it won't work in someone else's program. If you think that I'm going to get all tore up by your comments and defend my breeding choices to you, you are sadly mistaken. You keep bidding on and raising the type animals that work for you and I will do the same.

 

[RyanChandler]

First you bash Trump, Now Firewater? Legends! Thats like saying Lebron and Michael Jordan suck at basketball. XBAR you wouldnt know a good bull if he head butted you in the ass!

Trump and Firewater are more like the Globetrotters.  All flash and style.  They look the part but never could cut it.  The Lebron and Jordan of the shorthorn breed would be Saskvalley Bonanza and Muridale Buster 14k...maybe even RB Eagle 148.

 

[RyanChandler]

Ps.  I'm dying to know what the dairymans intentions were by using a bull like that?  You Prolly had him convinced he was the same type of bull as the good milking roan durhams of his childhood  :

I don't have any idea why the bull got bred to some Holsteins. I just know that Al Bullis who owned the bull at the time and who I bought the bull from told me that he had. You know I didn't post the pic of the bull for your approval, I posted it because someone was looking for it. He may not be your type , but he worked for me and some others. Once again just because you don't like an animal doesn't mean that it won't work in someone else's program. If you think that I'm going to get all tore up by your comments and defend my breeding choices to you, you are sadly mistaken. You keep bidding on and raising the type animals that work for you and I will do the same.

Hes not the beef industries type.  It has nothing to do with me or my preference.

 

[kiblercattle]

Haha got to love the shorthorn breeders they are the biggest demise of the breed itself... Well next to a poor run association.. I am not saying that I promote trump or that I don't for that matter but just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean that they don't  work in another part of the industry. Breeders don't need to be bashing each other and running down the shorthorn breed it has enough problems without that.

 

[ALTSIMMY 79]

Just notice his little "friends dont let friends use crossbred bulls" saying. Now if that isnt the stupidest saying on steerplanet i dont know what is !!! Trump was a shorthorn legend, always will be known. To each their own !

 

[knabe]

What is fleshing ability and why do we need it?

If cattle have fat on the inside like Holsteins do, how would one know that.

One time a guy showed me a cow who had great fleshing ability, and raised three small caves in a row.

I hadn't seen but one of the calves. He sai that was one of the greediest cows you will ever see.

That's why she's going town because she fleshes to easy.

 

[mooch]

Yesterday fleshing ability was bad because it made cows breed back to quick!

 

[knabe]

There's probably a little more going on than a professional eye otherwise we wouldn't have dairy breeds.

 

[RyanChandler]

Yesterday fleshing ability was bad because it made cows breed back to quick!

We need easy fleshing cows so that, in tough times, the cow's milk production isnt reduced.  A cow that doesn't store fat has no where to turn for energy. 

I agree, there's nothing worse than a poor milking easy fleshing cow that keeps it all for herself.

Dairy cattle have been selected exclusively for milk production so I don't thik that's a fair comparison.  With enough time. I could turn any breed into a dairy breed.

 

[GM]

Yesterday fleshing ability was bad because it made cows breed back to quick!

We need easy fleshing cows so that, in tough times, the cow's milk production isnt reduced.  A cow that doesn't store fat has no where to turn for energy. 

I agree, there's nothing worse than a poor milking easy fleshing cow that keeps it all for herself.

Dairy cattle have been selected exclusively for milk production so I don't thik that's a fair comparison.  With enough time. I could turn any breed into a dairy breed.

I would wager that if you tested Trump 3 and the two Canadian bulls mentioned (and 148 for that matter) on on similar set of cows (genetically and in the same environment under similar mgmt) you wouldn't be able to visually pick out which were Trump 3's 100% of the time through different stages of their life (birth, weaning, 15 mos, 24 mos and 30 mos.). Statistically, if their progeny were that much different and we could speak to facts the conversation would be much shorter.  In the meantime, I'll enjoy following the conjecture  (lol)

 

[RyanChandler]

I've read a good bit of your comments GM.  I'm fairly confident you'd do alright sorting that group.

 

[vc]

Last time I asked why the Shorthorn people like to bash their own breed I got Negative Karma, now looking at the bull (I had to go back and study him some) If he was ready to go out with the cows for breeding season I might have to agree with X, but if he was just back in from running with the cows I would say he looks fine. Was the picture taken at the end of a hot summer, what was the feed conditions? Hard to evaluate a bull from one picture taken at some point in his life, not a promotional picture just a picture. I have seen some pictures of bulls before cows and after cows, some look the same and others, it is hard to tell their the same bull. I would almost bet the bull that looks the same at the end of breeding season, more than likely has fewer calves on the ground come spring, then the bull who looks a little wrung out. I kind of worry when the bull looks like he may have gained weight during breeding season.

 

[comercialfarmer]

Woodland, first and foremost - if your gonna advertise your website, you might want to make a point to publish it first.  Secondly, 'influential' doesn't necessarily carry a positive connotation...and in the case it definitely doesn't.   Like I said, only 2 hd have trump influence: PRC Shadow and PRC Foxy Daisy 09.  I didn't bash any cattle.  I clearly stated that this bull will decrease the fleshing ability in cattle.  If you can't form the same conclusion based off the bull's phenotype then you're not half the cattlemen you think you are.  

The website isn't advertised, it only on my profile. And I just took it down a few weeks ago because I am in the works of having a professional one done. As soon as its done ill email you the link so you can complain about that as well. And influential in this case did carry a positive atribute. Ask anyone that has a big name in this breed. I can't see where this bull will take all the fleshing ability off of a cow. From his picture he will probably not make them hog fat but that was never even mentioned. You are bashing this bull just the way you did with firewater. Give it a rest! We really don't all have to do things exactly like you! Maybe your not half the cattleman you think you are. And obviously you think very highly of yourself. I have my program headed in the direction I want it headed. There is always more to learn about cattle tho. Maybe you should think about that.

You're right. Neither any Trump son or Firewater carry enough capacity to be viable option in the beef industry.   

I'm been fortunate enough to have a few real deal cattleman instill in me lifetimes worth of cattle sense.  The devil is in the details and your post is glowing with a lack of incite.  You can't see where the bull will take away fleshing ability? Well here let me show you.  The initial indicator is his proportion of body to leg.  This bull is easily 50/50.  Anytime you start getting less than 2/3rds body , you will have an animal whose phenotype prohibits a roughage only diet.   These animals don't have enough internal capacity to consume enough roughage to meet their daily requirements.  That's why these type of cattle must be fed a denser feedstuff.

And most importantly, I could care less if you do anything like me or not.  What I won't do is sit back while a bunch of doll house cattle queens try to pass off these flat sided bulls as viable options in the beef industry. 

Ps.  I'm dying to know what the dairymans intentions were by using a bull like that?  You Prolly had him convinced he was the same type of bull as the good milking roan durhams of his childhood  :

Your lack of self confidence comes shining through your post.  Unless you change your ways, I don't worry about you actually becoming anything in the industry, you will be your own biggest obstacle.  Those cattlemen and your daddy did you a mighty injustice by not instilling a boot in your a$$. 

It takes more than one type of animal to make the world go round.  Grass fattened animals don't feed well in a lot and vice versa.

 

[ladyluck]

Haha got to love the shorthorn breeders they are the biggest demise of the breed itself... Well next to a poor run association.. I am not saying that I promote trump or that I don't for that matter but just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean that they don't  work in another part of the industry. Breeders don't need to be bashing each other and running down the shorthorn breed it has enough problems without that.

(clapping) <beer>

 

[r.n.reed]

Kibler,I am trying to figure out how your post helps the Shorthorn cause.

 

[kiblercattle]

It doesn't its the same antagonistic post as almost everyone else that I should have left unsaid. I get on here to learn about what good comes from different shorthorn lines.'not to listen to everybody run down everyone else's opinion of a good shorthorn.

 

[r.n.reed]

I understand your frustration.

 

[JTM]

Well I guess when I want to argue with about everybody that posted on this topic it means I shouldn't write very much...
I just wish that people wouldn't get all bent out of shape when someone like XBAR speaks up and gives his opinion. He didn't personally attack anyone and it seemed as if people got emotional right away. Here is how I saw what went down.
Woodland said: "So he would work good on some small framed really fleshy cows? Anyone have a picture of him? Never could find one."
Then XBAR said: "He will take away the flesh".

Isn't that the logical conclusion if you need to breed the bull to small framed fleshy cows?

Trump and Trump three are crossbred bulls anyways and XBAR doesn't like crossbred bulls. There is no doubt that CF Trump has gone down in history as the most popular Shorthorn bull in the last two decades. He has brought the breed to the top of the show cattle scene and brought a lot of money to Shorthorn breeders. There is also no doubt that CF Trump is not a commercially exceptable bull and the genetics do not perform well enough in commercial environments... I don't believe Cates are going to tell you much different... I like Doc's comments, you do what you want and I'll do what I want. Let's just keep the dialogue open so that we can all continue to learn and be transparent. That is what will further our breed.