what is a good char hf bull?

[mandyb31]

looking for a good char hf bull thats easy calving any suggestions?

 

[RyanChandler]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

 

[HF CHARS]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

would not recommend Lanza ,,had some extremely big calves out of him this fall ,,I think the best calvin ease bull out the is wr wrangler,,genex carries him

 

[Mark H]

The type of bull to use on heifers depends greatly on the type of heifer you are breeding.  I have seen Lanza use successfully on well grown out big purebred heifers with no history of calving ease problems.  I would not use him on smaller crossbred heifers in any event.  For this kind of heifer I would use Baldridge Fasttrack LT Blugrass, or Oakdale Duke.  WR Wangler combines both Oakdale Duke and Fasttrack and is a good choice for an up and coming bull.  LT Bluegrass will give you more REA than most other cslving ease sires.
I like SVY Kaboom for the quality of his calves  but semen may be harder to find.
What kind of female you planning on breeding?

 

[mandyb31]

She is a wmw x heatwave she is built for a steer momma

 

[RyanChandler]

She is a wmw x heatwave she is built for a steer momma

I'd use a lowline on a heifer bred like that. She's already prone to throw big calves.  A blocky steer momma is gonna throw blocky calves.  Let calving ease be your #1 priority.

 

[HF CHARS]

She is a wmw x heatwave she is built for a steer momma

bluegrass would be ok here,,,and would give you a good maternal female if you luck out and get a heifer, should add some pelvis too

 

[charmed]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

would not recommend Lanza ,,had some extremely big calves out of him this fall ,,I think the best calvin ease bull out the is wr wrangler,,genex carries him

I would definitely NOT use Lanza on heifers. Our average birth weights for Lanza bull calves in spring 2011 was 123 lb and for heifer calves it was 110 lb! Their performance at weaning was no better than any of our other calves either!

 

[RyanChandler]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

would not recommend Lanza ,,had some extremely big calves out of him this fall ,,I think the best calvin ease bull out the is wr wrangler,,genex carries him

I would definitely NOT use Lanza on heifers. Our average birth weights for Lanza bull calves in spring 2011 was 123 lb and for heifer calves it was 110 lb! Their performance at weaning was no better than any of our other calves either!

WOW- that's not good.  He has a .2 BW EPD w/ .85 ACC-  how can a bull throwing 123lb calves maintain an EPD like that?

 

[HF CHARS]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

would not recommend Lanza ,,had some extremely big calves out of him this fall ,,I think the best calvin ease bull out the is wr wrangler,,genex carries him

I would definitely NOT use Lanza on heifers. Our average birth weights for Lanza bull calves in spring 2011 was 123 lb and for heifer calves it was 110 lb! Their performance at weaning was no better than any of our other calves either!

WOW- that's not good.  He has a .2 BW EPD w/ .85 ACC-  how can a bull throwing 123lb calves maintain an EPD like that?

goes to show you cant depend on numbers ,,to many are manipulated

 

[WJ Farms]

There is a bull called Mr. Driven Bovine Elite carries him. He is a PB charolais and has a -7.3 BW EPD alot of ppl are using him for club calf. Might want to take a look at him................


http://bovine-elite.com/clubepd2.asp?idProduct=3820

 

[Mark H]

WJ,

Driven may have a -7.5 BWT EPD but his accuracy is only 0.34.  Not the accuracy that makes his BWT at all dependable.  It is likely bot many calves have data collected on him given the rest of the accuracies on his other (lousy) EPDs.  This bull is not a proven heifer bull and does not offer much else besides his BWT EPD.
Another bull to look at here is Three Trees Wind 383.  Doubs owns him and he does put a look on this calves along with a -3.5 BWT EPD.  Basically similar to what Oakdale Duke does in a more show package.
By the way the easiest calving breed  I have experienced is the Luing.  This Shorthorn Highland composite is very easy calving and tough as nails.  A 75 LB calf is huge by Luing standards.

 

[Freddy]

WHERE ARe the C.E. numbers on these bulls ,some of these CHAROLAIS sires have a -3. on BW  AND THEN the C.E. IS A 4-5 , i WOULD USE the MOST PROVEN BULL out there ,there is a lot of B.S. floating around ,two years ago very few people in CHAROLAIS EVEN PAID any attention to birth ,it was grow man grow ,once you get m  out ...  BLUEGRASS is been around and used quite a lot,now all of a sudden his numbers look pretty plain ,but he does have some accuracy and been very consistent ...BALDRIGE fASTRACK  ALSO HAS some proof of what he can do,and we have a son that is very consistent out of him,11.2 on C.E. AND - 2.4  WITH 60% accuracy ....BALDRIDGE FASTRACK HAS A C.E. of 13.7 & B.W. of -3.0  with 90 some accuracy ....I didn't check BLUEGRASS  BUT fastrack is definitely a proven heifer bull ...

 

[charmed]

LT Bluegrass, Three Trees Wind 0383, Baldridge Fasttrack,  SVY Kaboom, LT Silver Distance, Winn Mans Lanza

would not recommend Lanza ,,had some extremely big calves out of him this fall ,,I think the best calvin ease bull out the is wr wrangler,,genex carries him

I would definitely NOT use Lanza on heifers. Our average birth weights for Lanza bull calves in spring 2011 was 123 lb and for heifer calves it was 110 lb! Their performance at weaning was no better than any of our other calves either!

WOW- that's not good.  He has a .2 BW EPD w/ .85 ACC-  how can a bull throwing 123lb calves maintain an EPD like that?

goes to show you cant depend on numbers ,,to many are manipulated

Exactly! It is unfortunate that there is no way to have third party verification of birth, 205-day and yearling weights to ensure that EPD's are an accurate tool. I think there are definitely "computer cows" created with manufactured EPD's. Google "COMPUTER COWS" for an article written a while back by a purebred Char breeder. I think this hits the nail on the head; I am reluctant to base breeding decisions strictly on evaluation of EPD's.

 

[Mark H]

Charmed,

I agree whole heartedly with your comments on EPDs and Buddy Westphal's comments on the limitations  on the applications of EPDs;  Here is a llink to Buddy's ranch: http://www.vvcrbulls.com/. Note that Buddy is not sour grapes on EPDs he has some cattle with good  EPDs.  Many limitations of EPDs are baked into the cake.  It is assumed that the populations of cattle are normally distributed but this is not the case.  Heifer and bull calves have different birth weights with their own normal distribution. Sum both populations and the population is no longer normally distributed.  Also if you select in a population you will impact the distribution on  traits by getting rid of the bad performers.  Remember EPD data is not collected from random matings. 
Also most EPDs use data collected on a purebred population giving little indication of how the bull or cow will work in crossbreeding situation or commercial environment.  I would like to see EPD a collected on randomly bred grade cows to make them more relevant to producers.
Enough-get me off this soap box...

 

[Freddy]

THAT sounds like a heck of a good idea to me MARK and then you would have me some accurate  EPD'S for those good composite recorded cattle ...HA,HA,ha ,ha,