Which cow would you flush?

[kfacres]

personally, I wouldn't flush any of them.. I think flushing is over rated, and way too popular.

I would focus a buying a true stud sire, and mating him to my entire cowherd.

Now wheres the fun in that?

I see more fun in trying to develop a line of females that are consistant, uniform, and productive, and slightly related; but yet some differences....

than I do in owning one "good" cow, and a whole herd of recips...

sorry, that's not my idea of "FUN". 

Here's another way to look at it. It takes years to "breed Up" from a good female or a group of good females. IF you have an ideal female that produces what you want you can quickly multiply what would have taken years and dollars to build those females ground up. From cash flow perspective I gave in and flushed one cow because I wanted to move faster than I was. You can still work with the offspring of that one or those great females with flushing. Just eliminates a few steps with alot of dollars saved.

i see it as more of a traded dollars...  give or take.. spend it here on one cow, spend it there on all of them...

I think my biggest turnoff on flushing cows, is what 5% of the population, actually needs flushed- and what 45% of the population is getting flushed?  At most operations, one cow is all they have that rightfully deserives it, whereas 10 are getting it.? 

Sad, but in some people's places, the cow that needs flushed, isn't getting flushed-- her average unproven daughter is...

 

[CAB]

Another advantage is that you can have groups of fullsib flushmates to breed. Once you figure out a mating that works on those genetics you can can have larger numbers of similar looking/performing cattle. For those of us that are a little older, we know how hard it is to put those "great" cows in the herd and IMO it's the cows that make the difference. We can all get on the internet and find pretty good information on which bulls are working. It's much harder to figure out which cows are great and then to get them put into your own herd is time stakingly slower & harder let alone more costly.

 

[kfacres]

Another advantage is that you can have groups of fullsib flushmates to breed. Once you figure out a mating that works on those genetics you can can have larger numbers of similar looking/performing cattle. For those of us that are a little older, we know how hard it is to put those "great" cows in the herd and IMO it's the cows that make the difference. We can all get on the internet and find pretty good information on which bulls are working. It's much harder to figure out which cows are great and then to get them put into your own herd is time stakingly slower & harder let alone more costly.

just because they are a set of full sib, flush mates, doesn't mean that they'll breed the same... look at HW and his brothers for one instance...  Look at the other tag teaming brother bull duos out there...  Look at people- my dad comes from a family with 7 brothers and sisters.. one brother is about 5-5; 150 and another brother is 6-6 250... but my dad and two others look like triplets 6-3- 260.  the three girls are the same way...  you can clearly tell they're all related- atleast out of the same parents, but they look nothing alike in body design and build.   

Now, I'll counter balance with this...

If I have a whole herd of 1/2, 3/4 and 7/8 sisters and their mothers- who have been bred, selected, and discrimitated against, for 3, 4 or even more generations-- but go back to different cow families-- 

which do you suppose will be truer, more consistantely, and with more pre-potency? 

 

[OH Breeder]

Another advantage is that you can have groups of fullsib flushmates to breed. Once you figure out a mating that works on those genetics you can can have larger numbers of similar looking/performing cattle. For those of us that are a little older, we know how hard it is to put those "great" cows in the herd and IMO it's the cows that make the difference. We can all get on the internet and find pretty good information on which bulls are working. It's much harder to figure out which cows are great and then to get them put into your own herd is time stakingly slower & harder let alone more costly.

just because they are a set of full sib, flush mates, doesn't mean that they'll breed the same... look at HW and his brothers for one instance...  Look at the other tag teaming brother bull duos out there...  Look at people- my dad comes from a family with 7 brothers and sisters.. one brother is about 5-5; 150 and another brother is 6-6 250... but my dad and two others look like triplets 6-3- 260.  the three girls are the same way...  you can clearly tell they're all related- atleast out of the same parents, but they look nothing alike in body design and build.   

Now, I'll counter balance with this...

If I have a whole herd of 1/2, 3/4 and 7/8 sisters and their mothers- who have been bred, selected, and discrimitated against, for 3, 4 or even more generations-- but go back to different cow families-- 

which do you suppose will be truer, more consistantely, and with more pre-potency? 

I would hope your father is not having kids with his sisters. That explains the difference in how the genetics can be expressed. Every time you mate you can have a different expression of phenotype. As you isolate the phenotype and breed like expressions is when you breed consistently. Believe me, I did what you are talking about all through my 20's and it takes boat load of cash. I flushed one cow that is a good one for us and I have 12 copies of her that I could start isolating genes i already desire. You have to do what makes you happy. If you like breeding for generations then have at it but flushing whether you like it or not accelerates the process tremendous.

 

[jaimiediamond]

I really like the red brockle cow going on pictures alone and no production record readily available.  With that said I hope you have great luck with your flush with whatever cow you pick as they are all lovely 

 

[knabe]

Now, I'll counter balance with this...

If I have a whole herd of 1/2, 3/4 and 7/8 sisters and their mothers- who have been bred, selected, and discrimitated against, for 3, 4 or even more generations-- but go back to different cow families-- 

which do you suppose will be truer, more consistantely, and with more pre-potency? 

provide the data rather than talking about it.  do the same discrimination for 3 or 4 or more generations with the cow family scenario rather than comparing apples and oranges.

if the makeup of the different families arrived at the same phenotype by different/more combinations than from a cow line, you might have a tough time backing up your 3 lifetimes of breeding experience. 

define prepotency if they are all breeding the same.  on someone else's cattle?  if the point is consistency, why do you want prepotency as well?  i've seen probably 5 or 6 inbred lines and none of them were from the scenario you are describing without some recursive breeding at some point.

seriously, you should enroll in genetics with a minor in stats.  perhaps you will then find the truth.  maybe you arrive at less hate and be more real.

 

[Blue25]

First or second cow.

The first cow to BoJo

The second cow to Eye Candy

 

[mark tenenbaum]

First of all,Im 1 mile from the West Va Border-so Im carefull speaking sbout brother sister matings-any of the cows there looked good enuff to flush-given theyve produced. The first larger one needs a terminator like Walks Alone-the brockle to Tiger Woods-the Shorthorn WITHOUT HESITATION-to Young Money,the really good young black cow to Amen(for clean) or Smiling Bob-JMO. O0

 

[Warrior10]

Thanks for the new ideas.
Mark- How'd you know the black cow was young? Just curious how you could tell.