Adjusting birthdates on Purebred cattle

[BridgeViewAngus]

For those totally indignant about it, how many of you live in sports-oriented towns who have friends (maybe even yourselves) who hold kids back a year from starting kindergarden just because they aren't "quite ready" yet.  In Texas, there are hardly any "late spring or summer born" kids who actually start Kindergarten when they are 5.  It sure helps those future hopes for making the football team (or other sports) later on to let those kids get a little more age on them.  Same difference.

Well that's just wrong.  My son is a July baby, and didn't start kindergarten until he was 6 because he wasn't ready.  At 5 he would have done terribly having to sit in school all day.  It was a hard decision for me, not one that should be made so a kid can do better at sports.  In the end I decided kids are only little once, why push them out the door.

Oh and he shows a December 30th heifer, and was complimented by the judge on the honesty there.

It all goes back to integrity and the lack of it.  I'm trying to teach my kids the importance of it.

 

[justintime]

[
Basically, its not worth getting that worked up over.  Cattle are so much smaller framed now anyway age-fudging doesn't make that much difference as it used to.  I rarely see good ones get beat over it.  At the top end of classes in tough shows, its usally too close to call anyway.




You are right, and I have been suspicious of a few breeders actually aging their calves older than they actually are, so that their extra frame won't penalize them in class. Right now, I suspect we have people going both ways with birth dates, depending on what works the best for the animals they have. And I also agree, that it is not something we need to get worked up about. There is really nothing we can do about it and all we get is increased blood pressure and ulcers. I am still thinking that most breeders are honest... at least that is what I chose to believe. I also believe that honesty will pay rewards over time. I had a breeder tell me a few years ago, that he did not understand why his cattle do not bring as much as some other breeders cattle, when his are usually better than many other breeders. I didn't have the heart to tell him that day, but I suspect it has a lot to do with his reputation and his personality. I still maintain that people buy cattle from people they like and trust. .. at least 8 times out of 10

 

[husker1]

Breed associations are always so cash strapped, they can't afford to do anything to make people mad that would stop revenue streams from registrations.  Only thing I could think of would be to require date-stamped photos and registrations for show-eligible heifers to be submitted within 30-60 days of birth. 

Basically, its not worth getting that worked up over.  Cattle are so much smaller framed now anyway age-fudging doesn't make that much difference as it used to.  I rarely see good ones get beat over it.  At the top end of classes in tough shows, its usally too close to call anyway.

For those totally indignant about it, how many of you live in sports-oriented towns who have friends (maybe even yourselves) who hold kids back a year from starting kindergarden just because they aren't "quite ready" yet.  In Texas, there are hardly any "late spring or summer born" kids who actually start Kindergarten when they are 5.  It sure helps those future hopes for making the football team (or other sports) later on to let those kids get a little more age on them.  Same difference.  That stuff drives me way more nuts than anything to do with cattle.  It's kind of funny in Sunday school class when most of the kids my boys were in class with were all of a sudden a grade below them.  The girls are always "ready", the boys seldom are.

For the record - we kicked our "May baby" out the door and on the bus to school when he was actually 3 because he needed to go speech.  He's now an 11-year old 6th grader - probably the youngest kid in his class (and the tallest). 

Chambero...interesting theory with kids....and maybe true in some cases.  I had an August birthday and was one of the oldest in my class; didn't go to school early as my dad had two aunts that were teachers.  They both said that "boys aren't ready to go earlier, girls always are"....School was easy for my, though I didn't get any pro football offers in spite of starting later!

Someone spoke on here about that frozen eared summer born; have seen the Aprils with tipped ears...makes you wonder????  Shoot, we  start to calve in February and seldom get any tipped ones.

 

[chambero]

I have an August 20th birthday and was kicked to the curb early.  I was always the youngest in my class.  I guess my parents wanted to hurry up and get rid of me. 

It just really surprised me a few years ago when my wife and I realized that a bunch of other parents started kids late.  It never occurred to us to do so.  I've always thought of that being along the same line as fudging birth dates on heifers.  No disrespect intended to anyone, I just kind of personally think of them as being similar.

 

[husker1]

[
Basically, its not worth getting that worked up over.  Cattle are so much smaller framed now anyway age-fudging doesn't make that much difference as it used to.  I rarely see good ones get beat over it.  At the top end of classes in tough shows, its usally too close to call anyway.




You are right, and I have been suspicious of a few breeders actually aging their calves older than they actually are, so that their extra frame won't penalize them in class. Right now, I suspect we have people going both ways with birth dates, depending on what works the best for the animals they have. And I also agree, that it is not something we need to get worked up about. There is really nothing we can do about it and all we get is increased blood pressure and ulcers. I am still thinking that most breeders are honest... at least that is what I chose to believe. I also believe that honesty will pay rewards over time. I had a breeder tell me a few years ago, that he did not understand why his cattle do not bring as much as some other breeders cattle, when his are usually better than many other breeders. I didn't have the heart to tell him that day, but I suspect it has a lot to do with his reputation and his personality. I still maintain that people buy cattle from people they like and trust. .. at least 8 times out of 10

Justintime....I not sure if I agree on the "most breeders are honest" thought.  I've discussed this several times with some good friends, and we are definitely feeling that we are the minority in our part of the country, at least...as far as legit birthdates go.  Just know too much first-hand information, I guess!  I agree that it isn't anything that will change the world, it just really bothers me that integrity is sometimes not important.

I don't mean to get on a soapbox and claim to be a saint; I've certainly made a mistake or two....just ask my wife!  Learning from mistakes is the key!

 

[Okotoks]

I'm not sure you can always go on frozen ears, one of the shortest eared cows I ever owned was born March 18th. Didn't really matter because she was never shown. The trouble with changing birth dates is first it's a day then it's a week, the wrong date is the wrong date. When you look at people's birth dates and birth weight it often tells you the whole story. When Phil Butterfield held his sales he had December born calves and birth weights higher than some would want but you knew the info was right!

 

[justintime]

I have an August 20th birthday and was kicked to the curb early.  I was always the youngest in my class.  I guess my parents wanted to hurry up and get rid of me. 

It just really surprised me a few years ago when my wife and I realized that a bunch of other parents started kids late.  It never occurred to us to do so.  I've always thought of that being along the same line as fudging birth dates on heifers.  No disrespect intended to anyone, I just kind of personally think of them as being similar.

I can relate to what you are talking about. My birthday is in October but I was put into school when I was 5 because there was not many kids in the next year to start with, in our small school. As I result, I was in University when I was still 16. Things were a little different back then. I had driven my parents car and truck to town for over 2 years before I got my drivers license. In fact I drove myself to town to get my driver's license, and I hate to say this now, but I failed the driver's test because I didn't come to a complete stop when I came to a stop sign.( I am still guilty of that one sometimes). I was not sure what I should do as I did not want to drive the car away from the court house after failing my driver's test so I walked down town. After a few minutes of thinking about my situation, I walked back to the car, quickly got in and drove home. A week later I made sure my mother went with me.... just in case.

They were truly different times back then. When I think back there are so many things that we were expected to do at a very young age, and when I think about some of them, I wonder about my parents. A few months after we turned 16, Gary Latimer( Remitall) and myself, headed out from Olds AB with an oversized Fargo truck with a special made 32 ft box on it. ( we found out that the box was illegal and spent a few hours being held by the police in Ontario. They finally allowed us to head home but we had to promise we would never return to Ontario)We delivered sale cattle from Remitall's Shorthorn dispersal and also delivered the first Polled Herefords to Louada Manor in Ontario. We delivered cattle all the way into Quebec and drove over 5000 miles. When I think about what we did, I really wonder about both sets of parents. Obviously, they must have had great trust in us, and must have thought that we were capable of doing this.

 

[Cattledog]

The bad part about the suspicion that goes with moved birth dates is the chance that the breeder isn't lying about the age.  We have a bull this year that I was accused of moving dates around on.  Is the bull big and more mature looking...Yes. Did I change his date?  Absolutely not!  It was rather insulting when I was accused!  I told them if I were to move a date I would have moved our October heifer who is borderline on height.  Then I was mad at myself for even saying that!

Sometimes cattle do have exceptional growth. 

 

[sue]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42 :

 

[Cowfarmer65]

JIT you just gave your age away to me when you said you delivered the first herfs to Louada........you still get around pretty good for an old guy........lol...........just kiddin. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks at Shadybrook.

 

[Aussie]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42 :

Me to very embarrassing

 

[kanshow]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42

I just hate it when you forget how old you are and then someone actually reminds you. 

 

[knabe]

so, it's ok to lie about a heifer's age, but not a bull calf? ;D

 

[JTM]

This is one of the things that annoys me. We don't do it and there have been many times where it would have made a big difference. The heifer currently pictured on my profile was born on December 22nd. She probably would be worth a lot more if she was a January calf. Showing against calves that weigh 200 more lbs. than your heifer at Louisville isn't easy.Although I have been accused of changing birthdates when I have a really good growing calf. I feel like these days, anybody who registers a calf born on January 1st is probably telling the truth. People who are lying about birthdates usually make it January 2nd or 3rd, or even a few days later. I prefer integrity over dishonest profits.

 

[aj]

What about pricing adjustments? The Canadian factor. What is a 20,000$ Canadian bull worthin american dollars? Like the timeline bull sold for 20,000$. Is this american or canadian money? If no americans bought the bull why would report list american dollars or was it the drooling moose factor in high altitude thing od little deal.

 

[cowz]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42 :

I was in DENIAL about my age for so long that when someone asks me how old I am, I have to pull out a pencil and do the math!

 

[DLD]

THEY EVEN ADVERTISE that some crossbred bulls are sire of Angus, Hereford an other breed champions

Depending on where they were shown (and assuming you're talking about steers) this may not be against the rules.  Not every place requires steers showing in certain breed divisions to be purebred, even the Angus and the Herefords.

As far as birthdates on breeding stock go, I know for sure of a heifer I showed against way back when I was in school that was backed up six months... Most of the heifers we show now are in the Chi influence division here in OK which shows by hip height - doesn't mean there's not often a huge difference in age and weight in a class, but it's as fair a way to do it as any, IMO.

Oh yeah - I almost always have to stop and figure out how old I am.  My theory is I don't commit it to memory 'cause I really don't like thinking about it... LOL

 

[justintime]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42 :

I was in DENIAL about my age for so long that when someone asks me how old I am, I have to pull out a pencil and do the math!

I am not getting any older but the body I live in, is starting to show some wear and tear.

 

[Okotoks]

I lied about my age for so long " 39" that I really forgot how old I was ... thought I was turning 43 and Im only 42 :

I was in DENIAL about my age for so long that when someone asks me how old I am, I have to pull out a pencil and do the math!

I am not getting any older but the body I live in, is starting to show some wear and tear.

I just had to go modify a post because I was a decade out, that just cannot be a good thing!