Any one heard of some "calming shots" for steers?

[reno1014]

We have a Heatwave steer that is having major issues being a show steer.  Anything sets him off, he kicks and just generally acts like he doesnt
want to be a show steer.  He doesnt accept any TLC and just plain snorts at us.  He leads great and will set up, he will not stand if anyone gets near him
he acts mean and starts trying to run.  We took him to a show and had to "calm" him  pretty good.  I heard of a series of shots given once a month that
is a calming thing.  Does anyone know what this is and if it works?  I have been taking him to work with me for a few hours each day and find anything to rub him with
that makes noise to get him used to different things, and the people that constantly walk by.  We have had him for three months and he is getting worse not better.
I cant just turn him out, he is the best steer we have.

 

[Show Heifer]

I am going to choose my words very carefully, as I am probably aready in the crosshairs....

I would hesitate to call him "your best steer" if he tries to hurt you or anyone else. And since you admitted he was getting worse and not better, again, I would hesitate to recommend anything that might get you or someone else hurt.  It sounds like you have done your best to train him, but nothing has worked. Some animals (and people) just do not have good tempers....

He is a steer correct? That means he is steak and hamburger that is still breathing. DO NOT use anything that is not labeled for, and prescribed by a Vet, preferably YOUR VET.  And any vet worth his license will not prescribe anything for a show (meaning it is not a life threatening illness for the animal that it is being prescribed to) to "calm him".

My recommendation: Ask yourself: 1. Is it worth me getting injured over? Maybe a hospital stay? Broken bones? Worse?
                                                        2. Is it worth getting SOMEONE ELSE hurt? Seriously or worse?
                                                        3. Is it worth a possible lawsuit from an injured person (a "not so calm steer cost our fair multiple THOUSANDS of dollars. Also cost his owners multiple THOUSANDS).
                                                      4. Is it worth the black mark on the show industry if something bad did happen?

It is your animal and your call, but, I would SELL HIM TOMORROW.

 

[aggiegal]

I can't remember the exact name but there are 2 different ones.  I believe one is Thorazine.  I've known people that have used it and it does help but is NOT a cure all.  There is a vet in Fredericksburg, TX that has an all natural mix that you can give--which has pretty good results.
That being said, I agree with the above post.  It's not ever worth getting your child, or someone elses, hurt.  These kind of steers can't usually be fixed and are never trustworthy.  Probably not what you want to hear, but cut your losses now--- would be my advice.

 

[Jill]

Have you tried the Melatonin pills from Wal-Mart, I haven't used them but know several people that swear by them.

 

[redwingfarm]

I would agree with the others, as hard as it may be this steer needs to become steaks NOW, we had a heatwave steer this spring who was great in the barn but put him on a trailer and he would go NUTS, his last ride was a short one, just to the fair to be weighed in. By the time we got there he was so out of control he wanted climb every gate and run down anyone in the way, I got kicked in the knee and was limping for 4 weeks afterward, after this performance my daughter informed me that under no circumstances would she show this calf, and she at 15 yrs old,  proceded to chew me out for having such a beast on the farm in the first place!!!  By the way the calf was the "best steer we have ever owned" and had a good shot at winning our fair.  Forget the drugs --SELL the steer now before someone gets hurt!!  No matter what the prize is it isn't worth it!!  Good luck

 

[chambero]

If he is truly bad, nothing is gonna work.  As others posted, its not worth getting your kid (or anyone else) hurt over. 

You may have heard of a variant of thorazine called fluphenazine.  Its a human drug that law enforcement officials use on people with mental problems that won't take their medicine on a regular basis.  It's nickname is 3-month thorazine.  People that are ordered by courts to take medication are often given it by their parole officers, psych wards (or whoever does that kind of thing), etc.  It is a long lasting antipsychotic designed for people.

Haven't used it, don't know where you get it, but I know its out there.  I also haven't heard of any cases that it really made a significant difference on a calf that crazy.

 

[SWMO]

"  3. Is it worth a possible lawsuit from an injured person (a "not so calm steer cost our fair multiple THOUSANDS of dollars. Also cost his owners multiple THOUSANDS)."

Show Heifer, This is always a huge concern for our Fair Board  are you at liberty to explain the circumstances behind what cost the fair and the owners of the animal thousands?  Always looking at ways to make our fair a safer and funner environment for all the spectators and participants.

 

[DL]

For the 10,000 th time I am dismayed at the adults on this board who are suggesting that people with crazy and dangerous animals drug them - not only can the drugs potentially exacerbate the problem BUT IT IS ILLEGAL. It is illegal to use fluphenazine in cattle. It is illegal to use thorazine in cattle. And like it or not it is illegal to use Ace to calm cattle for a show.

You are producing food. You need to about drug use in cattle and you need to know the law.
http://www.avma.org/reference/amduca/amduca1.asp
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/amducatoc.htm

I agree 100% with Show Heifer - burger him - he can't hurt anyone if he is your best steer in the freezer

 

[chambero]

DL - I don't see any of these posts that told or suggested the poster to use anything.  Some of us answered his question about what he heard about and then every post I've read said we don't think any of it works on a calf like this.

 

[DL]

DL - I don't see any of these posts that told or suggested the poster to use anything.  Some of us answered his question about what he heard about and then every post I've read said we don't think any of it works on a calf like this.

Oh get real chambero - you are implying tacit approval in your post - the question wasn't what time does the sun come up- the question was what drugs can I give my "best" but insane steer so I can show him - you supplied the name of a drug that is illegal to use in cattle and failed to mention that ....hmmmm

like I said before For the 10,000 th time I am dismayed at the adults on this board who are suggesting that people with crazy and dangerous animals drug them (there is no dismayed face)

 

[farmboy]

crazy is crazy, my brother had a steer when i was little that wanted to kill him everytime he seen us. best thing we ever did for him was eat him  <cowboy>

 

[chambero]

DL - I don't see any of these posts that told or suggested the poster to use anything.  Some of us answered his question about what he heard about and then every post I've read said we don't think any of it works on a calf like this.

Oh get real chambero - you are implying tacit approval in your post - the question wasn't what time does the sun come up- the question was what drugs can I give my "best" but insane steer so I can show him - you supplied the name of a drug that is illegal to use in cattle and failed to mention that ....hmmmm

like I said before For the 10,000 th time I am dismayed at the adults on this board who are suggesting that people with crazy and dangerous animals drug them (there is no dismayed face)

DL - You really do make a lot of a assumptions about other people's intent that are incorrect.  He asked a question and I answered it.  I also said it was a drug for people, not cattle.  I also said I've never heard of anything working on a calf like that.  You seem to think that you are the only person that is allowed to give your standard answer.  I'll be sure to get your editorial approval prior to making any more posts of this nature. 

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with providing information related to all of the "I've heard of such and such" rumors out there to try to take it out of that realm.  I doubt that the poster is going to get anywhere with his vet or doctor just because he now knows the name of something.

And for the record, I've never used it.  Heard of it last year and looked it up on the internet myself to figure out what in the world it was.  And the one calf I knew of that was given it wound up in the owner's deep freeze because it didn't do a bit of good.

 

[DL]

chambero - you could have erased all doubt if you had added that the use of this drug in cattle is illegal. I stand by my assumptions  - you implied tacit approval of the use of an illegal substance - you stated that you were aware of its use in a calf without effect on his behavior, but  failed to mention this use is illegal. If one of the purposes of this board is to provide education esp for youth - give all the information -

 

[chambero]

The "illegal" thing was already covered in the post and we all know we can count on you for that aspect of it!  .

I try to avoid sounding like a broken record, but I just can't help myself today.  Vets all over the country commonly prescribe these things for for use on cattle for people that are very honest with the vet about what they do with them.  I guess we need to yank the licenses from probably 90% of the large animal vets in the state.  You are one vet making an outcry against it compared to the hundreds (if not thousands) of vets that folks that show cattle deal with on a regular basis that tell us all the same things. 

Nearly every major show has pretty simple rules now - don't take a steer to a terminal show with any detectable drugs in their system.  If you do, you get in big trouble.  About 99.9% of people are smart enough to use a little common sense, do what's right, and avoid those problems. Neither have I ever heard of a carcass getting rejected from a commercial slaughter facility or USDA complaints that there is a big problem in our food chain over the use of tranquilizers.  There is little evidence that you are saving the industry here.

And the tranquilizers never work in cases like this one sounds like.  Which I believe is a lot more important to tell someone than "thou shall not".  There really aren't any miracle drugs for anything to calm or enhance cattle. 

We do appreciate the accurate information you give us, but please stop telling us how horrible we are that we will talk about these issues in ways other than you approve of.  Otherwise, let's have an official list published on what we can/can't discuss.  In fact that's an idea, you ought to come up with DL's Ten Commandments of Raising and Showing Cattle!

There are whole lot of people that show cattle that could make these boards more useful and certainly entertaining if you could talk about the real world and spend less time getting preached at and hearing about how terrible show cattle are along with every aspect of breeding, showing, and selling them.  Some of you make it sound like such an awful sin that its no wonder so many people enjoy showing cattle!   Maybe we could get some priests to set up confessionals for use right after each show.

 

[ShowmanQ]

I have to say that I agree with Chambero on this one. The kid wanted to know what the possible "drugs" heheard of could have been, and Chambero listed a possibility. I do not think that he condoned it, just gave an answer as to what it could have been. Right or wrong, look at the number of vets that would prescribe something to this young man's calf for a show. I personally think that the owners should put the calf in the freezer because, as stated previously, no purple ribbon or high spot in a county fair sale is worth getting someone hurt.
DL I truly find SOME of the information that you post to be very useful, but we DO NOT need to be griped at every time we go against YOUR PERSONAL OPINION. Yes your opinions are backed by college education and real world experience, but whats to say someone else does not have the same minus the schooling? What is your opinion on "calf calm"? It being a legal substance with no withdrawl period (I believe.)

 

[chambero]

By the way, I don't think it was a "kid" I replied to.  They talked about hauling the steer to work with them and they already implied some basic knowledge about trying to calm an animal.  I don't think I was replying to a 13 year old 4-H kid (even though I know they might read these posts - but I bet most spend their time reading much more interesting things to them on MySpace or whatever else it is they go to these days!).

 

[DL]

I have to say that I agree with Chambero on this one. The kid wanted to know what the possible "drugs" heheard of could have been, and Chambero listed a possibility. I do not think that he condoned it, just gave an answer as to what it could have been. Right or wrong, look at the number of vets that would prescribe something to this young man's calf for a show. I personally think that the owners should put the calf in the freezer because, as stated previously, no purple ribbon or high spot in a county fair sale is worth getting someone hurt.
DL I truly find SOME of the information that you post to be very useful, but we DO NOT need to be griped at every time we go against YOUR PERSONAL OPINION. Yes your opinions are backed by college education and real world experience, but whats to say someone else does not have the same minus the schooling? What is your opinion on "calf calm"? It being a legal substance with no withdrawl period (I believe.)

showmanQ- I am not going to get into a urination contest with you or chambero - chambero and I have danced this dance and I find sins of omission really troublesome.

BUT I will say to you that it is not my opinion IT IS THE LAW and if you are producing food you should know the law. If you decide to break the law - that is clearly your choice. If vets and others are breaking the law by handing out drugs not to be used legally in cattle or other food animals - that is their choice - BUT THEY ARE STILL BREAKING THE LAW.

 

[chambero]

showmanQ- I am not going to get into a urination contest with you or chambero - chambero and I have danced this dance and I find sins of omission really troublesome.

BUT I will say to you that it is not my opinion IT IS THE LAW and if you are producing food you should know the law. If you decide to break the law - that is clearly your choice. If vets and others are breaking the law by handing out drugs not to be used legally in cattle or other food animals - that is their choice - BUT THEY ARE STILL BREAKING THE LAW.

I answered the guy's question (appropriately I still think - there was no sin of omission) and then you "urinated" on it first.  You don't want a "urination contest" just so long as you get the last word every time.  The same last word every time.  I'm done now.  And people wonder why we have nicknames for yankees down here

 

[DL]

Calf calm is not considered a drug so it does not fall under the FDA rules - my understanding is that it is tryptophan - an amino acid - which is believed to have calming effects - that is the short answer - if you want more (oh no he says) let me know

chambero - can't tell you what we call Texans - this is a family board

 

[knabe]

ugh