Best Heifers

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gilbert07

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Mar 2, 2008
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Monticello
Well i found out today that my charolais heifer isnt breeding.  Shes been A.I. twice and with two bulls, one that shes been with for over 2 months now and today the guy called me and said she was coming back in heat..Shes the second best heifer that i have had that wont breed.. i have had other heifer just as good that wouldnt breed and the vets said everything felt fine on them both...i hate this feeling
 

doubled

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Sep 8, 2007
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Iowa
Do you have a good state vet college??? We love ours here in Iowa sometimes they can find things that others cant.
 

gilbert07

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Mar 2, 2008
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Monticello
well we have Dr. Hannon and Dr. Dickson of Rensselaer and they are one of the best in the state
 

Cowboy

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Apr 13, 2007
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692
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McCook Ne.
Haul her over to Dr Chuck -- if he can't get her figured out, it won't happen any where else, even here.

I know Chuck very well, a great guy to start with , but a very very good ET vet. They are very busy for a reason, results.

Get hold of Chuck , she may just need to be less conditioned or simply need time -- they are all different.

Best of luck -- don't give up till all leads are used!

Terry
 

Jill

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Jan 20, 2007
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Gardner, KS
I can tell you we had a cow that came in heat every cycle just like clock work whether she was bred or not, I would have a vet preg check her and make sure she isn't bred, most can tell at 40 days.
 

Show Heifer

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Jan 28, 2007
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I honestly hope your best heifer won't breed....because in MY book, that isn't a very good heifer!!!

Some advice from someone that has been there, done that....sell her. She has something wrong. Doesn't really matter what, but something is keeping her from getting bred when everything else is. That means she is inferior to your other bred heifers. If you keep her and by chance she does get bred, do you really want replacements out of her? Want to deal with late matureing, hard breeding, whatever wrong females or bulls out of her??

I know it is hard to watch the prettiest (commonly called "the best") female being loaded up, but, keeping in mind your goal of functional, PROFITABLE cow herd, it is the best thing to do.

 

doubled

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BCCC said:
Show Heifer said:
I honestly hope your best heifer won't breed....because in MY book, that isn't a very good heifer!!!
Completly uncalled for!!!

Agree with BCCC, there are alot of things that can cause that heifer to not breed, stress is one of them, depending on how much you have invested in the heifer and if she
is totally attached to the family that means alot too, in my book we explore all our options before we ship them down the road, as we would not have invested in a heifer
unless we wanted her genetics.  For us I sure as heck would not give up on her yet.
 

Rocky Hill Simmental

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Aug 22, 2007
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397
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Missouri
Honestly, I'd give her a second chance. Sometimes moving them too much can stress them. Sometimes they're just too fat.

I posted about one of my simme heifers way back when I first joined who was having a problem similar to your charolais. Most people told me to sell her but there were a few who gave me some advice. It turns out I was moving her from the bull too fast. Most people irl told me if you keep them together 21 days because heifers cycle every 21 days but I've found it's better to keep them with the bull longer than that.
 

DL

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Jan 29, 2007
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I guess it all depends on what your definition of "best heifer" is - my best heifers breed first time AI, calve unassisted, do a great job of raising a calf and go back into heat 30 to 45 days after calving. Heifers that don't stick after 2 shots at AI (assuming good heat detection, adequate body condition,  well vaccinated, and approximately 80-85% adult weight at calving, etc) do not stay because in my world they do not meet the definition of "best heifers".

Heifers that do not get pregnant after both AI and exposure to the bull usually have a problem and even if you get them pregnant they usually don't improve with time - ie it will never be easy to get them pregnant. It is possible that she is pregnant and "cycling" - that does happen and she can be diagnosed pregnant at 28 to 30 days by ultrasound or after 30 to 35 by palpation.

If you love the heifer and can afford the to feed open animals then Dr Hannon is the man with the answers - good luck.

Show heifer - please remember that although all opinions are welcome, your opinion is not 
<party> <party>
 

Show Heifer

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My "best" heifer didn't breed 3 years ago....she didn't breed the following year either....hope you enjoyed her on your burger bun or pizza!! I know that is harsh, but an infertile heifer does me absolutely NO good. Just like an infertile bull, doesn't do you a damn bit of good if they can't pass anything on.
And bccc, just how big of fella are ya?? ;)  You better think twice about threatening personal bodily harm to someone you know nothing about!
 

OH Breeder

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Feb 14, 2007
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Ada, Ohio
Show Heifer said:
My "best" heifer didn't breed 3 years ago....she didn't breed the following year either....hope you enjoyed her on your burger bun or pizza!! I know that is harsh, but an infertile heifer does me absolutely NO good. Just like an infertile bull, doesn't do you a damn bit of good if they can't pass anything on.
And bccc, just how big of fella are ya?? ;)  You better think twice about threatening personal bodily harm to someone you know nothing about!

DId I miss something....BCCC? Threat? Where is that posted?
 

red

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LaRue, Ohio
DL said:
I guess it all depends on what your definition of "best heifer" is - my best heifers breed first time AI, calve unassisted, do a great job of raising a calf and go back into heat 30 to 45 days after calving. Heifers that don't stick after 2 shots at AI (assuming good heat detection, adequate body condition,  well vaccinated, and approximately 80-85% adult weight at calving, etc) do not stay because in my world they do not meet the definition of "best heifers".

Heifers that do not get pregnant after both AI and exposure to the bull usually have a problem and even if you get them pregnant they usually don't improve with time - ie it will never be easy to get them pregnant. It is possible that she is pregnant and "cycling" - that does happen and she can be diagnosed pregnant at 28 to 30 days by ultrasound or after 30 to 35 by palpation.

If you love the heifer and can afford the to feed open animals then Dr Hannon is the man with the answers - good luck.

Show heifer - please remember that although all opinions are welcome, your opinion is not 
<party> <party>

I'm sorry but that was not needed DL. Jen's opinions have never been denied or refused. When someone usuallyonly post negative you might find more people disagreeing w/ them. I'm not sure why this took a turn for the nastier or what went on here but I really think that was a low blow. I'm not sure if a post got pulled or modified but someone saying something isn't nice to me isn't a threat. If there was more, I have no idea.

Glad you liked the cheerleaders. Thought you'd get good use out of them.

Red
 

red

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LaRue, Ohio
other adult moves have been threatening & cussing at a 13 year old child for taking away someones karma points.
If a threat was made, an apology should be also made. The person in the above incident did the same.
Also DL, in response to you reduction of karma point for me, if you'd read my post I said I wasn't sure what had happened. I don't believe I came about as self righteous just trying to clear up the confusion.  <party>

Enough said on this  part of the topic.

Red
 

red

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LaRue, Ohio
Gilbert- are you sure she isn't cystic? We had one like that several years ago that after the 2nd vet's exam found she was.

We also bought a heifer 2 years ago that was AI'd about 5 times, thrown out w/ the bull & never conceived. Sometimes you do need to cut your losses.

Red
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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Texas
We've learned the hard way on this issue over the years and just been terribly frustrated when our pretty ones didn't breed right on schedule with the rest of our group.  Practically none of them ever worked out to be truly productive females.

If you were making cold, hard decisions, if she was just one animal in a group and the rest of them did fine, you'd probably want to get rid of her.  But obviously you think she is worth a little trouble. 

I would worry more about the fact she didn't breed with the bull than if she didn't breed to AI.  That being said, after a vet looks at her and verifies everthing is ok, give her 90 days with a bull.  If she doesn't breed, she will probably always be trouble.

Aren't Charolais a little slower maturing sexually than some other breeds?  Was she truly ready to be bred?
 

cowz

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Jan 10, 2007
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justamom said:
BCCC said:
Show Heifer said:
I honestly hope your best heifer won't breed....because in MY book, that isn't a very good heifer!!!
Completly uncalled for!!!

Agree with BCCC, there are alot of things that can cause that heifer to not breed, stress is one of them, depending on how much you have invested in the heifer and if she
is totally attached to the family that means alot too, in my book we explore all our options before we ship them down the road, as we would not have invested in a heifer
unless we wanted her genetics.  For us I sure as heck would not give up on her yet.


ENOUGH!

I hardly think that getting in the face of someone seeking advice is the answer.

 

GONEWEST

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Mar 24, 2008
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GEORGIA
Gilbert,

I'm going to assume that you don't have a bunch of cows. I'm going to assume that if you have to sell this calf at the sale barn, you don't have a bunch of money you're wondering what to do with to replace her. I'm going to assume that you're somewhat attached to this heifer.

Based on all those assumptions, it's my opinion, and obviously everyone has one, that you should explore all options before selling her.  Sometimes they just won't breed. AND sometimes there is something that can be corrected, like all the reasons stated above. Another common problem i didn't see mentioned is that these heifers don't drop the egg at the right time. They come in heat you breed 'em, the semen dies and then they drop the egg. A simple CHEAP injection will fix that right up. Sometimes problems can be solved by using her as a recip and getting her pregnant with an embryo.

As to some of the other comments, like.........."she'll always be hard to breed." Not necessarily true. If its a hormone type problem, having a baby can get all that fixed. If it's that timing problem, it may never happen again. If it's a physical problem, like something wrong or a blockage in her cervix, maybe not so much.

And as to the comment "would you want replacements out of her?" Low fertility is NOT a highly heritable trait. IF it were, there would be no infertile cattle. They would have long ago died off from the inability of those lines to breed back. The response to the drugs used in embryo transplant,  which is sometimes viewed as "high fertility", does seem to be highly heritable. But the inability to breed is not HIGHLY heritable or there would be no problem animals today.

At some time you will come up to a point of diminishing returns, where it costs more to pay someone to try to find her problem than it would to replace her. That might be a good time to let her go. BUT.......I'm assuming the cattle business is not what you depend on to pay for your meals and shelter. Therefore, you DO NOT have to treat this a a business. If this heifer means something to you, I would explore all the possibilities before giving up.
 

CPL

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Messages
608
I've heard of a pretty big Hereford Ranch who sold an awesome cow because she missed a cycle and calved 21 days after the rest of the herd.

It just depends on what kind of operation you are wanting to run. Getting rid of heifers/cows that don't breed is a great way to increase fertility in your herd, however; the draw back is that you don't know for sure if she was infertile or if something else was going on that could have been fixed.

I would not buy a heifer unless there was a breeding warranty. Was something like that addressed at the time of sale?

I don't think Show Heifers comments were uncalled for. I think she/he actually has a good philosophy- and one day I hope I can use that same philosophy to improve my herd. In the future I only want the best. That philosophy is called strict culling and I believe its the sign of a practical, profitable cattleman.
 

GONEWEST

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CPL said:
I've heard of a pretty big Hereford Ranch who sold an awesome cow because she missed a cycle and calved 21 days after the rest of the herd.

It just depends on what kind of operation you are wanting to run. Getting rid of heifers/cows that don't breed is a great way to increase fertility in your herd, however; the draw back is that you don't know for sure if she was infertile or if something else was going on that could have been fixed. YEARS

I would not buy a heifer unless there was a breeding warranty. Was something like that addressed at the time of sale?

I don't think Show Heifers comments were uncalled for. I think she/he actually has a good philosophy- and one day I hope I can use that same philosophy to improve my herd. In the future I only want the best. That philosophy is called strict culling and I believe its the sign of a practical, profitable cattleman.


"I honestly hope your best heifer won't breed" That is uncalled for. And the statements that her progeny would be like her are baseless.

This is a kid with a calf or two. It's not a "pretty big Hereford ranch,"  with an awesome cow. And off the topic, logic of that statement is just asinine. YOU take the average cow that calves 21 days earlier and you give me the awesome cow that calves 21 days late and we'll assume she does so each year, ok?  It will take my cow 9 YEARS to get 6 months behind. We'll sell our calves, my awesome one and your average one, when your calf is 1 year old. We'll see who has the biggest bank statement at the end of that nine years, ok?  Bank statements are the bar by which all business is measured. That determines what "practical and profitable" really is.
 
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