Calving ease shorthorn question

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Mikeb228

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Mar 13, 2016
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I'm looking for a calving ease shorthorn bull to AI  a couple of purebred heifers. Would like suggestions on a bull found on the open market that adds mass and shag.

Would any of the following bulls work?
Ace of Diamonds
The outsider
Hot commodity
Evolution
Omaha

Any other ideas would be appreciated.
 

mark tenenbaum

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HOT COMMODITY AND EVOLUTION--None of the others listed are remotely safe RE CE We have a small amount of HEIFER PLUS semen on a bull who showed last year and got injured very young His first calf is out of my first calf heifer-He was 62 POUNDS I will post a picture from when he was a few hours old The bull is Comptons Justified who was a real beast He has a full brother at Lampier farm- L&L EXPRESS ET who has 68 calves registered with good records-Out of average BW females the calves are in the 80s with some 90s-Which in reality is very close to the BWS of Byland cattle in general-UB Ms Mountain air is the dam Shes sired by Fresh Air a bull subject of a couple posts on here a while back-And she has tremendous performance as well She was showed around iowa some and won her class every time-Sr Champ at the Iowa field day-Then she was kicked out on drylot and hay for ALMOST TWO Hot months Then went to the Iowa state fair and just wanted hay till the first day-Ate a little grain-won her class FFA show NO GRAIN NO HAIR NO BARN NO PROBLEM And she weighed around 1500 pounds still-NOT FAT AT ALL
 

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mark tenenbaum

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From the list he posted he is clearly looking for something that will show No offence-although they are very functional etc-The cherry Fillet types are NOT show cattle For the most part  neither is the heifer I posted-And she was fed a high roughage ration till she got kicked out after thr Iowa field day For that matter SHE IS NOT COMPETITIVE off 2,5 months dry lot in a very hot summer in Iowa I ran out of room for pics - first post But for the record heres what she looked like a day or two out of dry lot-Went to the Iowa State fair the next day-THEY are are the LAST 2 PICTURES She came back  off the trailer a day later  And 2.5+ months later she had the calf in very early November- You can see her condition then-including a close up per se of her udder a few hours after calving Shes the best keeping animal there- Includes Angus-and Maines Wanna produce low bw Grass fed cattle-A son of her will do that-Her breed average carcass traits are as good as it gets Thats her 2 hours after calving -and 2-3 months more of drylot hay in extreme heat  So: can you think beyond so called heritage cattle?- I raised them too-62 years ago Even back then-a reserve calf champion bull at the Chicago International came out of one of my 4 H heifers-sired by Dandy of Westdrums one of the first larger Canadian-dual bulls in VA for Windholme Farms  O0
 

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beebe

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mark tenenbaum said:
From the list he posted he is clearly looking for something that will show No offence-although they are very functional etc-The cherry Fillet types are NOT show cattle For the most part  neither is the heifer I posted-And she was fed a high roughage ration till she got kicked out after thr Iowa field day For that matter SHE IS NOT COMPETITIVE off 2,5 months drylot in a very hot summer in Iowa I ran out of room for pics - first post But for the record heres what she looked like a day or two out of drylot-Went to the Iowa State fair the next day-THEY are thev are the LAST 2 PICTURES She came back  off the trailer a day later  And 2.5+ months later she had the calf in very early November- You can see her condition then-including a close up per se of her udder a few hours after calving Shes the best keeping animal there- Includes Angus-and Maines Wanna produce low bw Grass fed cattle-A son of her will do that-Her breed average carca,s traits are as good as it gets Thats her 2 hours after calving -and 2-3 months more of drylot hay in extreme heat  So: can you think beyond so called heritage cattle?- I raised them too-62 years ago Even back then-a reserve calf champion bull at the Chicago International came out of one of my 4 H heifers-sired by Dandy of Westdrums one of the first larger Canadian-dual bulls in VA for Windholme Farms  O0
He mentioned calving ease, mass and shag.  Cherry Fillet does that if he is not show cattle that is probably why I like him.
 

oakview

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The bulls you listed might work in some situations, but I'd still recommend more proven, consistent bulls.  Like they used to say, dead calves have a poor growth rate.  I would bet Cherry Fillet would be a good choice for calving ease.  Sometimes it can be a trade off.  The most consistent calving ease bull I've ever used is 3W Payoff.  His daughters make great cows, too. 
 

mark tenenbaum

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Hes looking for show cattle-That narrows the field Dependent upon how the heifers are bred-There are quite a few moderate and larger bulls that are CE and closer to show than functional performance-Proud Jazz,Red White Roan, Wymore,Cf Prosperity-YES PROSPERITY, Homeplace Hot Commodity(sexed with heifer plus-his bull calves are heavier than the heifers) BFS Master Prince,South Star Red RX,Kane Captain,Kane Cat Walk Sull Red Sensation, Private Malone (Jay Benham-Stone Springs Ohio) Sull Red Demand(Also owned by Stone Springs) Sull Red Reward  O0
 

beebe

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mark tenenbaum said:
Hes looking for show cattle-That narrows the field Dependent upon how the heifers are bred-There are quite a few moderate and larger bulls that are CE and closer to show than functional performance-Proud Jazz,Red White Roan, Wymore,Cf Prosperity-YES PROSPERITY, Homeplace Hot Commodity(sexed with heifer plus-his bull calves are heavier than the heifers) BFS Master Prince,South Star Red RX,Kane Captain,Kane Cat Walk Sull Red Sensation, Private Malone (Jay Benham-Stone Springs Ohio) Sull Red Demand(Also owned by Stone Springs) Sull Red Reward  O0
So do I understand that the definition of show cattle is non functional?
 

Medium Rare

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BRBG7 said:
I'm looking for a calving ease shorthorn bull to AI  a couple of purebred heifers. Would like suggestions on a bull found on the open market that adds mass and shag.

Would any of the following bulls work?
Ace of Diamonds
The outsider
Hot commodity
Evolution
Omaha

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Hot Commodity is the proven CE from your list.

It depends on their type and pedigree, but the Reincarnation 228Y bull is one that gets overlooked. He can deliver some of what you're looking for if the heifers can bring the rest of what's needed to the table.

Cattle Visions has added some new bulls that were previously a little harder to get, so it might be worth a look. You'll probably find you have to give up some of that mass to get the calving ease you need.
 

mark tenenbaum

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beebe said:
mark tenenbaum said:
Hes looking for show cattle-That narrows the field Dependent upon how the heifers are bred-There are quite a few moderate and larger bulls that are CE and closer to show than functional performance-Proud Jazz,Red White Roan, Wymore,Cf Prosperity-YES PROSPERITY, Homeplace Hot Commodity(sexed with heifer plus-his bull calves are heavier than the heifers) BFS Master Prince,South Star Red RX,Kane Captain,Kane Cat Walk Sull Red Sensation, Private Malone (Jay Benham-Stone Springs Ohio) Sull Red Demand(Also owned by Stone Springs) Sull Red Reward  O0
So do I understand that the definition of show cattle is non functional?  ///// WHAT definition? Its about the look and width do or fed on doability etc etc.  If your market is ok at some small county fair or you just sell grass fed beef-fine  Other people may want one that will go to the State or National levels Its hard to be in that arena (which I would assume is different than yours) and have the investment where it seems necessary to swing for the fence on the first calf.-In order to sell in that market-they dont have to win but do need to exhibit enough of the characteristics that the big $ cattle have at that level TO SELL SHOW HEIFERS STEERS OR BULLS-Thats what this thread is about.This can be achieved without the exact duplication of some of that hi BW Hi maintenance breeding -Maybe the baby calf pictured will be a step closer Possibly defy the odds if he grows anything like his mother did She IS NOT what I would call a show heifer as stated -SHE DID COMPETE and OUTGAIN everything she ever went up against -without being "fed for show" Show cattle raise calves too-Just gotta know how to breed them If you look at her EPDS and start the % anaysis crap etc-She speaks for herself-and with no hair-Off 2.5 months of drylot- Wherever she went-some people really liked her Im real happy with that and we did not wish to sell her O0
 

mark tenenbaum

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Medium Rare said:
BRBG7 said:
I'm looking for a calving ease shorthorn bull to AI  a couple of purebred heifers. Would like suggestions on a bull found on the open market that adds mass and shag.

Would any of the following bulls work?
Ace of Diamonds
The outsider
Hot commodity
Evolution
Omaha

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Hot Commodity is the proven CE from your list.

It depends on their type and pedigree, but the Reincarnation 228Y bull is one that gets overlooked. He can deliver some of what you're looking for if the heifers can bring the rest of what's needed to the table.

Cattle Visions has added some new bulls that were previously a little harder to get, so it might be worth a look. You'll probably find you have to give up some of that mass to get the calving ease you need.  ///// Well put-Or-use one like Red White and Roan and give up a little frame-And-HES BEEN USED ALOT O0
 

Dale

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Yes, Reincarnation would be a good one to consider.  Who sells Reincarnation semen?  Or his colorful son, Ronan.

Homeplace Hot Commodity 1625 is not a true "heifer bull" due a few higher birth weights, but he is above average and sires calves with a desirable shape for easy calving.  We calved 7 first calf heifers to 1625, most at 24 months of age, with no assists--our heifers are fed only grass hay (David Ragsdale's heifer ration) in the months prior to calving and usually have an above average CEM (a large pelvis).

1625 passes on his long hair, but he and his offspring still shed well in the spring.     
 

mark tenenbaum

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Dale said:
Yes, Reincarnation would be a good one to consider.  Who sells Reincarnation semen?  Or his colorful son, Ronan.

Homeplace Hot Commodity 1625 is not a true "heifer bull" due a few higher birth weights, but he is above average and sires calves with a desirable shape for easy calving.  We calved 7 first calf heifers to 1625, most at 24 months of age, with no assists--our heifers are fed only grass hay (David Ragsdale's heifer ration) in the months prior to calving and usually have an above average CEM (a large pelvis).

1625 passes on his long hair, but he and his offspring still shed well in the spring.    /// Ronan is available at Cattle Visions and Bull Barn- far as I know you buy Reincarnation on Jungles Sale or a sale they may be  involved in selling various semen O0
 

Medium Rare

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Dale said:
Yes, Reincarnation would be a good one to consider.  Who sells Reincarnation semen?  Or his colorful son, Ronan.

Jungels had been offering a cane in his sales. It would be worth a call for anyone wanting to use the type. His sire Sultan of Jazz is available from his owner in Oklahoma as well.

I had considered using a cane of Ronan on a set of heifers this summer, but I think I'll let everyone else test out how the bottom half of that pedigree will come through.
 

shortybreeder

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Medium Rare said:
Dale said:
Yes, Reincarnation would be a good one to consider.  Who sells Reincarnation semen?  Or his colorful son, Ronan.

Jungels had been offering a cane in his sales. It would be worth a call for anyone wanting to use the type. His sire Sultan of Jazz is available from his owner in Oklahoma as well.

I had considered using a cane of Ronan on a set of heifers this summer, but I think I'll let everyone else test out how the bottom half of that pedigree will come through.
I'm hesitant to use Ronan on heifers since he required assistance despite having an actual BW of only 72lbs. I am curious to see how his calves turn out though.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Going the smaller framed (Jazz) route-Sultan and JSF Mccoy would be my choices If the heifers are good sized Red White And Roan for my market They have alot of pizazz-tons of useage on him-and are similar in size  O0
 

Duncraggan

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I'm glad my parameters are only width, depth and calving ease.
This show stuff would drive me mad!
I want a deep, dish-faced Shorthorn cow that is wide over the hips and pins, and gives me a live calf every year.
Simple!
Achieving that seems to be my biggest problem, unfortunately.
Why didn't I start when I was in my 20's!
 

jconner2088

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We have used red white and roan since he came out always happy with his calves and usually small and get going quick. We show cattle so take it for what it’s worth. We have used the outsider this yr so can’t say on the calves but from what I have seen. It should work just fine.
 

Doc

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Out of that list I would use Hot Commodity in a heart beat. Calving ease, saleable calves and great cows.
The Reincarnation bull that someone mentioned, I don't know about. I was very disappointed with the stats on his sons in Jungel's bulls this year. The yrlng wgts are some of the lighter ones and the REA is the some of the smaller ones with a lot of 10 & 11" scanned REA. JMO.
 

mark tenenbaum

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HC is the best all around bull there is at this point-he checks all the boxes-And they do not give up any performance or quality O0
 
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