Calving question??

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fluffer

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First let me explain..
  We have a 2yo clean up bull that we are getting the first set of calves out of now.  He is an Angus bull out of Stevenson Benchmark.  His data doesn't suggest we should have had any concerns with calving difficulties.  However, his calves are averaging 95 lbs on the bulls and 90 on the heifers.  Way too big!  For the most part the cows have had the calves on their own, 2 calves have had some swollen heads and tongues.  Needless to say he is going bye bye soon!
  Last night I got home from work at about 5pm and saw a cow calving.  She didn't have the bag or feet out yet, but I could tell from here behavior she was in active labor.  By 7:30pm she still had not made any progress.  I was watching her through the window of our house as to not disturb her.  It was going to get dark about 8 pm so hubby and I decided with the history of big calves out of the bull we should run her up and pull it.  We did, and the calf was big but not too big for her to have- I don't think.  Defiantly a 95 to 100 lbs though.
  This event got hubby and I discussing how long a cow can attempt to calve before the calf will die.  So that is my question.  I know if a calf is hip locked or half out it doesn't take very long.  But say the calf is too big to come through the birth canal or it is in the improper position, how long will it stay alive inside the cow?

Thanks
Fluffer
 

Bawndoh

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This could be a loaded question...haha.  I have heard of up to 6 hours.  Did the calf survive?  It is ususally better to attend to cows quickly, as a mature cow really should not have any problems calving.  Give a cow 1/2 hour, and a heifer 1 hour before you assist/palpate.
 

fluffer

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Thanks for asking and responding!

Yes the calf was fine.  We went ahead and milked her out and gave the calf the bottle to make sure he got colostrum and all.  My husband was freeking out though.  TO set the scene- it was dark, and raining.  We don't have a good set up for working at night with cows and we are up to our eye balls in mud.  When we pulled the calf his hips got caught briefly so we were pulling and twisting him.  Well when they let loose the calf came flying out and hit the palp cage door and fell to the ground.  Then because he wasn't' in the birth canal long enough to pump that fluid out of his lungs we had a tough time getting him breathing.  But once he was "OK" we took him to the front of the chute for momma to lick while we milked out a bottle while we already had her caught.  Like I said, it was dark and raining, getting late, and I already have a horrible achy type cold/flu so I wanted to go to bed.  Once we got the bottle I went ahead and gave it to the calf.  This is when hubby starts to freak.  He is worried that if I give this calf the bottle the calf won't get up and try to nurse.  He wants to tube it.  I Vito his decision and give the calf the bottle.  This morning the calf was up, running around, and had the cow nursed out.  Now as long as neither pair get some type of infection from the whole ordeal I will consider it successful!

Fluffer
 

red

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good job fluffer! when will this rain end? Oh yes, in July & August we'll be praying fo rit!
 

fluffer

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red said:
good job fluffer! when will this rain end? Oh yes, in July & August we'll be praying fo rit!

A men sister!  THey are predicing the same weather we had last year for this year :'(
 

red

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We had a terrible drought in our nothern farms. Hubby said the worst droughts come from the southest. I think they've had it rough.

Red
 

Bawndoh

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Sounds good fluffer.  I understand the whole schmozzle and why you didnt get to the cow sooner.  At least you never lost the calf though!!  Sometimes God just knows how to push our buttons and make everything harder than it has to be, but everything seems to work out in the end.
The last two summers have been rainy for us up here too.  Mom and Dad got something like 18 inches of rain in one month...June I believe.  It barely dried up from Spring and then the rain came down.  My Dad got 400 out of 1500 acres seeded because it was impossible to get into the feild for months!  There have been some heavy disaster assistance programs from the government lately ;).
 

fluffer

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Got lucky again this morning. 
We had a cow calving in about the same place as the one I discussed earlier.  While I was getting ready for work I kept looking out the window and watching her progress.  She got feet and nose out and that was it.  She was working hard too.  I was ready for work, but couldn't leave till the calf was out, so I looked out the window and the calf appeared to be hip locked.  Grabbed the chains, ran down, cow couldn't get up (luckily), hooked up to the calf, and yanked his butt out.  Poor thing was just laying there blinking while I was trying to pull him out.  Got the cow up and licking on him, and  I came to work.

I am so aggravated with our clean up bulls this year.  They are both going to town. 

Fluffer
 

dori36

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fluffer said:
Got lucky again this morning. 
We had a cow calving in about the same place as the one I discussed earlier.  While I was getting ready for work I kept looking out the window and watching her progress.  She got feet and nose out and that was it.  She was working hard too.  I was ready for work, but couldn't leave till the calf was out, so I looked out the window and the calf appeared to be hip locked.  Grabbed the chains, ran down, cow couldn't get up (luckily), hooked up to the calf, and yanked his butt out.  Poor thing was just laying there blinking while I was trying to pull him out.  Got the cow up and licking on him, and  I came to work.

I am so aggravated with our clean up bulls this year.  They are both going to town. 

Fluffer

Fluffer, repeat after me:  "LowlineLowlineLowline for cleanup"! Yes, they can and do breed fullsized cows.  Or, go for a percentage Lowline bull.  They're cheaper and a bit bigger.
 

red

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Dori & TJ- I saw we got another Lowline breeder the other day. Lazy G Lowlines. Oh my, they're coming out of the woodwork! ;)  (lol)


Red
 

fluffer

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(clapping) (clapping)
hahah!  I might consider that after the year we have had!!!

How sad is it when I ask my 18 mo daughter if she wasnts to go out to see the cows and she says "cows, milk, calf, baby, bottle" every time.  She thinks we have to milk the cows and give the calves a bottle.  She has seen us milk out too many cows and give the calf a bottle.  It has been a crazy year!

how big is a lowline bull (hight and weight) what is their average bw.

Fluffer
 

shortyjock89

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TJ will probably correct me, but his bull Doc Holliday is something like 48 inches and 1450 lbs...  And I'm sure I'll be corrected on this too, but a 1/2 blood Lowline calf will run anywhere from 45 to 70 lbs, depending on what the cow is. 
 

justme

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sure that lowline nice in theory, and I for one think they have there place, but I'd get killed at the sale barn with one that small.  I cann't imagine they'd dress out at the 1100+ pounds they want around here.

Sorry about your bad luck Fluffer.  I'm here alone all day and dread when I have to pull or chase one thru the mud to the barn.  Everyone seems to say angus, angus, angus, on first calf heifers....I find to many guys around here having trouble with those angus.  I'll take my maine clean up bull anyday.  He's a Money Man x CTR Success.  Love those easy coming calves out of him.

Good luck!
 

shortyjock89

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A half blood calf will come awful close to that 1100 lbs at kill time.  I think it might be worth it to use a Lowline or % Lowline on heifers at least. 
 

fluffer

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We have used Gelbviehs in the past and not pulled one all year.  We just got ahold of an angus with a little BW on him.  The other cleanup is a simmy angus and he has a bad attitude and his calves are a little dumb too.  Calving ease on him is fine though.  We have 1 heifer left to calve and she was bred to the angus bull.  Keep your fingers crossed!  I would have never dreamed this much trouble with 1 bull.  EVERY calf has been big.  We are always very critical of BW epd's when selecting any bull.  Just one of those things I guess.

We already have 2 new bulls lined up for this year.  1 is a balancer bull (Few Dollars More X Gelb Cow) we sold to a neighbor he is a 3 yo and looks pretty good.  The other is a registered angus (GAR-EGL Protege) bull that has a much better BW epd  ;)

At least my life isn't usually boring  ;D
 

fluffer

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justme said:
Sorry about your bad luck Fluffer.  I'm here alone all day and dread when I have to pull or chase one thru the mud to the barn. 
Good luck!

I have a Border Collie for that!  He is awesome!  He helped me last night get 3 heifers back in when the electric fence got unhooked and hubby wasn't home.  He is always ready to work- does a good job too.  Hes the guy in my picture!
 

dori36

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red said:
Dori & TJ- I saw we got another Lowline breeder the other day. Lazy G Lowlines. Oh my, they're coming out of the woodwork! ;)  (lol)


Red

That would be Glenn and Nancy Chapman from Washington State.  They have mighty nice Lowlines and own one of the few homozygous red fullblood Lowline bulls in the country.  Welcome aboard, guys!!  Put a pic of Bluey up.  Folks  here would love him!
 

dori36

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fluffer said:
(clapping) (clapping)
hahah!  I might consider that after the year we have had!!!

How sad is it when I ask my 18 mo daughter if she wasnts to go out to see the cows and she says "cows, milk, calf, baby, bottle" every time.  She thinks we have to milk the cows and give the calves a bottle.  She has seen us milk out too many cows and give the calf a bottle.  It has been a crazy year!

how big is a lowline bull (hight and weight) what is their average bw.

Fluffer

Fullblood Lowline bulls can range from "too small fer ya" up to 48" or so at the hip.  Some are a little bigger.  Bull weights from 1000 to 1400 or so.  Mine weighed 1310 when I had him collected a couple of years ago.  Halfblood Lowline bulls will probably finish right up there with some of the smaller Angus bulls.  Really hard to give an average as the non-Lowline side can vary so much.  TJ has probably raised more percentage Lowline bulls all the way to maturity and will have a better handle on it.  BW for percentage Lowlines, again depending on the "other" side, probably range from 50 lbs to about 70 at the high end.
 

dori36

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justme said:
sure that lowline nice in theory, and I for one think they have there place, but I'd get killed at the sale barn with one that small.  I cann't imagine they'd dress out at the 1100+ pounds they want around here.

Sorry about your bad luck Fluffer.  I'm here alone all day and dread when I have to pull or chase one thru the mud to the barn.  Everyone seems to say angus, angus, angus, on first calf heifers....I find to many guys around here having trouble with those angus.  I'll take my maine clean up bull anyday.  He's a Money Man x CTR Success.  Love those easy coming calves out of him.

Good luck!

If your operation primarily depends on marketing cattle on pounds, you have a point.  However, if a person wants to market on pounds using a retained ownership agreement and hooks up with a feeder that offers a bonus for grade and quality on the grid, you can do very well with halfblood Lowlines.  Lowlines crossed with Angus qualify to be fed as Certified Angus Beef and if they meet the further requirements upon slaughter, there is a very nice bonus.  Dress out at 1100 pounds, I don't think so.  Let's see, based on a 60% dressing percentage, that would mean the finished steer in the lot has to weigh about 1900 pounds.  I don't think that most feeders have any desire to take steers to that weight.  And an 1100 pound dressed weight would have a hard time fitting into the "box" that the big guys are aiming for.  I guess feeders in your area are looking for much bigger feeders than I have seen.
 

justme

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I meant finished out at at least 1100 pounds I type faster than I should sometimes.  If we take a steer under 1100 pounds even if he's finished, they tend to get nailed hard at sale barn.
 
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