Cattle Cosmetic Surgery

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OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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I know that this might seem played out, but i would would like to know if people are using surgery to enhace their animals. Not talking about getting the horns done, but key ares such as neck, topline, flanks and navels. I figure you could make a pretty nice animal if your willing to spend the money. In my mind this is wrong and unethical, but im pretty sure this is not stopping people.  <hero> Yea I said It
 

Cattledog

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Well, I'm sure some people are still doing this.  I noticed you wondered about the naval.  I remember back when I was showing some guys that I knew had a really nice heifer with a lot of naval.  They took her to the vet and had the naval banded.  Would you consider that wrong? They were open about it and didn't hide it from anyone.  Nobody said anything and I really didn't care.  I guess that would be considered cosmetic and by definition of rules illegal...correct?
 

doubled

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I wouldnt doubt that it is getting done, Ive heard of some wiith neck jobs, we personally have never done anything like that, too costly for my little pocketbook
 

jason

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WOW, but with $$$ at some of these shows and the money people will pay to win -  you could see why.
 

klintdog

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I know of at least one purebred bull undergoing a facelift of sorts about 10 years ago. He wiped out every show he was at because he was so much cleaner fronted than the rest of the animals. They sold a ton of semen out of the guy, but the gig was up when all the calves came out looking like pugs and nothing like their old man.
 

simtal

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I heard of several hereford outfits years ago (70s) that would cut flanks, or basically cut the suspensory ligament for the udder.
 

BCCC

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Well I have only had the horns done but even them have scar tissue, and I kept very good care of them putting neosporin on them a few times a day and keepign them clean. I would imgine you would have a hard time keeping the front end from scarring up
 

Cowboy Up

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I have never heard of anything other than poles being done. We had a steer last year we had surgically de-horned, and they reshaped his pole.
 

bcosu

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when we were getting our steer dehorned the vet commented on that. we didn't ask but he mentioned people saying that they would like him to angle the poll. we only had scurs so it turned out nicely but i guess i have heard of the head shaping.
with naile coming up, what about surgeries to keep teeth in? i'm new to this one and someone told me they used oragel the morning of weigh in and got away with it. i also hear about screwing them in from the lower part of the jaw.
 

red

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dehorning is as far as I'll get.

Heck, I might want it someday, why spend it on my cows?  (lol)

Red
 

Dusty

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The only thing I really know of for sure that goes on is the head shaping.  I've heard rumors about sheaths and a little skin up front getting fixed, but I've never heard or seen it first hand.  If a person could fix sheaths, skin up front, etc. without leaving scars, you wouldn't need a real job.  You would be able to name your price.  Who wouldn't pay 5K to fix a couple things on a 30-40K calf? Do 20 or 30 a year and you would have a nice living. 
 

red

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Dusty said:
The only thing I really know of for sure that goes on is the head shaping.  I've heard rumors about sheaths and a little skin up front getting fixed, but I've never heard or seen it first hand.  If a person could fix sheaths, skin up front, etc. without leaving scars, you wouldn't need a real job.  You would be able to name your price.  Who wouldn't pay 5K to fix a couple things on a 30-40K calf? Do 20 or 30 a year and you would have a nice living. 

Gee, then I'm guility. When we have ours dehorned they shape the poll. Just makes it look like they've never had horns. Yes, they are still registered as being horned.

Red
 

chambero

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cbcfarms said:
when we were getting our steer dehorned the vet commented on that. we didn't ask but he mentioned people saying that they would like him to angle the poll. we only had scurs so it turned out nicely but i guess i have heard of the head shaping.
with naile coming up, what about surgeries to keep teeth in? i'm new to this one and someone told me they used oragel the morning of weigh in and got away with it. i also hear about screwing them in from the lower part of the jaw.

We used to have the tooth rule in Texas.  My senior year I have a very good steer that was contender at our majors (placed second behind the grand at Fort Worth and wound up third at Houston).  He spit his teeth before Houston.  We knew he was going to and actually pulled them so we had them.  Removed the permanents coming in (worst thing I've ever done to a calf) and glued the babies back in the morning we left for Houston with denture cement.  Put a little feed in his mouth right before sift and breezed right on through. 

After that little experience, a vet in OK came up with a procedure to keep the permanents from coming in.  He got rich from Texans  running our babies up to him to get the permanent teeth buds (I'm sure that's not the correct term) drilled out.  He'd go in from the bottom of the jaw and do something that would prevent the permanent teeth from ever coming in.

Illegal?  There weren't any rules that said we couldn't.  Rules just said the baby teeth had to be in.   That is what was done literally by nearly everyone that was serious about showing back in the day.  Shortly after that vet figured out how to get around that problem, all Texas shows did away with the tooth rules. 

I didn't realize any shows still had tooth rules.  I understand the intent, but that really penalizes kids for something that is not under their control.  Certain breeds loose teeth much earlier than others (i.e. Angus).

There's nothing about cosmetic dehorning that's unethical.  We've always had heads shaped. 
 

Bawndoh

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Why is it such a big deal if your calf has visible scurs or horns left from dehorning??  How much does this "poll reshaping" cost?  I had never heard of surgical dehorning until I signed up on Steerplanet!!  Do I live in a hole, or are you guys crazy?  Lol.  Im not sure anyone in my area and surrounding participate in this.  Hell, my old vet was practically too stupid to properly fix a prolapse....dont think poll reshaping would have been his game.
 

red

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Bawndoh said:
Why is it such a big deal if your calf has visible scurs or horns left from dehorning??  How much does this "poll reshaping" cost?  I had never heard of surgical dehorning until I signed up on Steerplanet!!  Do I live in a hole, or are you guys crazy?  Lol.  Im not sure anyone in my area and surrounding participate in this.  Hell, my old vet was practically too stupid to properly fix a prolapse....dont think poll reshaping would have been his game.

it runs us about $75. We have it done at OSU's vet school. I only do cattle that are show worthy or that will be a larger sale.

Red
 

chambero

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Our costs for surgical dehorning are about the same.  I know its been very common in Texas for 20-30 years.  It's not just done on show animals.  A lot of people will have it done to their good bulls and cows just so they don't have to ever bother with dehorning them again. 

 

inthebarnagain

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Dusty said:
The only thing I really know of for sure that goes on is the head shaping.  I've heard rumors about sheaths and a little skin up front getting fixed, but I've never heard or seen it first hand.  If a person could fix sheaths, skin up front, etc. without leaving scars, you wouldn't need a real job.  You would be able to name your price.  Who wouldn't pay 5K to fix a couple things on a 30-40K calf? Do 20 or 30 a year and you would have a nice living. 

IMO a $30- $40,000 calf should be dang near perfect without anything other than a dehorning.
 

chambero

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Truth is they are.  I don't believe very many are cut on at all.  I've heard of a few last ditch attempts to cut tendons/ligaments on some that get too straight, but never heard of it actually helping enough to make a winner.
 

jrg

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Sumpter, OK
I never heard any names as to who was doing the carving, but I'm sure Chambero would know without me saying since he's in the TX market.  I had a customer who's brother worked for a large trader in Texas.  This guy's brother traveled around doing the cosmetic dehorning you've spoke about, which I don't see any problem with and have done to my calves in the past.  However, in the same circle, was a guy who's expertise was "taking a little leather off here or there."  This could be anything from cleaning up the navel to making a cut just inside the front left leg and pulling the brisket tight.  And was done on anything from a calf to AI sires.  One time he asked me if I bred to any of the hot shorthorn sires and I told him no.  He said good, because they just gave one "the works" and his brother told him they pulled enough leather off of him to cover a sofa!  This guy had been in the club calf business years ago, but couldn't remember the name of the shortnhorn bull, and it really didn't mean anything to me other than it was happening.
 

BCCC

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I have had a few calves  cosmetically dehorned and it was about 35 bucks, the reshaping of the poll was just part of the job. It just makes a calf look even better!
 
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