Do you turn in your weaning weights, etc?

[red]

Just curious how many turn in their weaning weights, yearling weights & etc? I know some breeds require them but the Maines are much if you want too.
I usually try to turn in all my weaning weights. Do admit there are times when I've forgotten to do the yearling weights. I also turn in birth weights. Know some people that don't even do that much.
Any thoughts? Opinions?

Red

 

[SWMO]

I guess that depends on whether you are a truei(in for the long-haul) breeder of cattle to market to the commercial and the purebred livestock producer or just raising a few to harvest your grass.

Numbers are important.  In my opinion especially, calving ease(unassisted as opposed to assisted), birth weight, weaning weight and yearling weight.  I also like to know the longevity of the cow family.  How's their udders.  An old wise cow just does a good job.  First calf heifers are just like teenagers many need their hoofs held.

 

[chambero]

We don't register very many and our cow herd is out calving in large pastures.  Sometimes we catch them the day they calve, sometimes its two or three days later.  Often, we'll know they've calved but baby is laid out hidden in the grass or bushes somewhere and we don't actually see the calf for a few days. 

For our operation, it just isn't logistically feasible and since we don't sell bulls not that much of a benefit for us. 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

our breed has total herd reporting. This means that every cow on your inventory has to be accounted for with some sort of data (dead calf, bw, etc.) In order for the calf to be registered as a purebred animal it has to have both birth wt and weaning wt information turned in other wise they are registered as a catagory 2 animal which only means that they have at least some Red Angus parentage. This system is geared towards higher accuracies for the EPDs but it is only as good as the information turned in, which IMHO is being manipulated to a great extent by some breeders because our association places so much emphasis on the numbers (EPDs). We are required to pay a fee for every cow in our inventory reguardless if we register a calf out of her or not, unlike the old days when you simply paid a fee for the calves that you registered and just turned in data for the ones that you did'nt register. This is a big time money grab by our association which I would not mind as bad if they would promote the breed as a whole instead of just promoting the cattle with big EPDs - we call it COW TAX ! Ok got off subject and vented - sorry! do feel a little better though.

 

[DL]

Cow tax! AMAA is going toward that again - they did it before and I think it flopped. ASA has several options but apparently you get to register one calf per cow you pay you WHR on - it can however be any calf - kind of a wierd system.

I report all my BW and WW - if I keep yearlings I report those too.  What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too!

 

[shorthorns r us]

What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too![/color][/b]

Do you really want the AMAA trying to do that?

At completing tasks, I find breed associations only slightly more effective than government entities.

 

[Jill]

Ok, here is one of my favorite rant and rave subjects.  We raise 100% registered cattle,  primarily Maine with a few Shorthorns and I know I am at odds with most of you, but EPD's to me in these breeds are a useless set of numbers!  I do take legitimate weights (on a scale) at birth, weaning and yearling, I gave up trying to turn them in because we 1. wean too early and the computer will not accept the weights and 2. we don't have enough cattle weaning at a time to have a comtemperary group of 8 (I think) so even if it did accept the weights they don't count in the EPD figures anyway.
My son is on the WHR system in the Shorhorn program because you don't get your prize money at national shows if you aren't (I think that was the reason), while it sounds like a really great deal, I had a "free" heifer last year that wasn't great, but we decided that we would go ahead and register her since we were going to keep her for a cow and it would be "free" .  The cow is on WHR, but didn't have a natural calf so we registered an ET calf out of her, the charges for this were:
AI Cert.              20
ET Cert.               5
ET Register        15
Herdbook entry 20-because we had bred up to a 15/16 we had the privilege of paying an extra 20
TH test              27
WHR                 15
My free heifer cost me $102.00 to register, what a deal.  I kindly explained to the nasty lady at the Shorthorn office that from here on out I will be breeding my 1/2 blood Maine heifer to a Maine bull instead of a Shorthorn for a registery total of 20.  I hope the Maine Association doesn't go to this type of cow tax robbery, but it does seem to generate more revenue.

 

[justme]

From the talk we got from John at the MO state fair...its a done deal Jill.  You don't have to participate, but you won't get EPD's and reg. fee will be higher for non reporting herds.  We only reg. a couple every year so I'm not sure were going to participate.  Plus the membership fee is going up too (If I'm thinking right).

 

[DL]

What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too![/color][/b]

Do you really want the AMAA trying to do that?

At completing tasks, I find breed associations only slightly more effective than government entities.

I'm confused - do what??

 

[shorthorns r us]

What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too![/color][/b]

Do you really want the AMAA trying to do that?

At completing tasks, I find breed associations only slightly more effective than government entities.

I'm confused - do what??

compute adjusted weaning weights.  i know that it is easily done with the computer.  i was just taking a jam at an easy target.

 

[Jill]

From the talk we got from John at the MO state fair...its a done deal Jill.  You don't have to participate, but you won't get EPD's and reg. fee will be higher for non reporting herds.  We only reg. a couple every year so I'm not sure were going to participate.  Plus the membership fee is going up too (If I'm thinking right).

I know they said the membership fee is going to 100 with 25 going back to the state.  Kansas doesn't have an association that I know of so that money I assume stays with the Association.  
When the Shorthorn's 1st did the WHR thing, I thought it was great, thought it would save a lot of money, but in the end it costs me more than any of the other breeds I deal with, not a big selling point when it comes to breeding time.

 

[Jill]

What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too![/color][/b]

Do you really want the AMAA trying to do that?
They already compute adjusted weights they just have to fall in their "acceptable" window.

At completing tasks, I find breed associations only slightly more effective than government entities.

I'm confused - do what??

compute adjusted weaning weights

 

[knabe]

cow tax.  i'm thinking the association is either looking for more consistent year to year revenue stream, which they would lose if the cow had an unregistered calf, which i think may be what is happening.  what does the association want to do with the money?  cover costs, put ads in western cowman with no breeder ads.  seems like a lot of questions for this year's elections.  call the candidates, i will after i get my copy of voice which i guess has the ballots.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Cow tax! AMAA is going toward that again - they did it before and I think it flopped. ASA has several options but apparently you get to register one calf per cow you pay you WHR on - it can however be any calf - kind of a wierd system.

I report all my BW and WW - if I keep yearlings I report those too.  What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too!

Ah DL, now you are learning how to manipulate the number system. Wean them early - pump them full of feed and then weigh them near 205 days and turn that weight in. It will make your cows look better on paper and in our breed alot of people are playing that game......buyer beware!

 

[shortyjock89]

We calculate WW and YW from dates that arent exactly 205 and 365..we merely interpolate or extrapolate, depending on if we weigh early or late.  For weighing early-  Weight/age in days (ADG lol) x days left until 205 or 365.  Add that number to the actual weight and ta-da...adjusted weights..For late weights, just do the same, except subtract the extra days from weight.  I'm sure everyone knew that, but I just find it easier than messing with computers...I hope that's how you do it, cause that's how we've been doing it for years.

Oh, and to answer the question to the actual post, yes we do turn in all BW's and WW's, and most of the YW's..I also think that WHR is a joke and I don't know why I have to pay to have the ASA know that I have cows...they never get the WHR right, and it's just a hassle to me.

 

[Show Heifer]

Yes, I turn in weights.

But also realize that EPD's are only as good as the people that are turning them in....so, if I don't trust a breeder, then I don't care if he has the number one EPD bull in the world, I won't buy into it. A lot of things go into numbers, and I, when purchasing livestock, consider it all. Creep or no creep. Weaning dates, how BW was taken, supplemental feed for cow or calf, weather, pasture conditions....
I try and be an educated buyer and like to deal with folks that don't expect an idiot with a checkbook.

 

[DL]

What I find annoying is that it doesn't matter when you wean (what, no pasture, wanna wean early) those numbers although real weaning weights on real days are meaningless unless they fall into a window of days - how is a WW of the right number of days more accurate after the calf has been on full feed for 2 months? This is the age of computers - they should be able to calculate it from any date - the CHAPS program can calculate a 205 WW from any date - thanks I am done ranting too![/color][/b]

Do you really want the AMAA trying to do that?

At completing tasks, I find breed associations only slightly more effective than government entities.

I'm confused - do what??

compute adjusted weaning weights.  i know that it is easily done with the computer.  i was just taking a jam at an easy target.

SRU - who was the target? Me or the AMAA - it can't be that hard to do I have a formula that can do it - why can't they?? (lol) (lol)

 

[itk]

We turn in all birth and weaning weights. Yearling weights are a bit harder since we don't have that many calves that stay around for that long, we also are in the middle of the next calf crop at that time so it usually isn't that high on our list. I have numerous problems with recording weights and how much attention some people give to the numbers. Right now we have a May show hiefer that weighs as much as a January replacement heifer who has been out on grass all summer. Dose that make the May heifer better or higher performing? To me it just means that she got alot more TLC. As far as EPDs go we throw them out the window. I put more faith in an animals appearance then in numbers. I would rather calve out 90# slender calves then 80# blocks. I think EPDs are a usefull tool but there are to many variables that can skew the numbers in either direction for me to have to much faith in them.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

We turn in all birth and weaning weights. Yearling weights are a bit harder since we don't have that many calves that stay around for that long, we also are in the middle of the next calf crop at that time so it usually isn't that high on our list. I have numerous problems with recording weights and how much attention some people give to the numbers. Right now we have a May show hiefer that weighs as much as a January replacement heifer who has been out on grass all summer. Dose that make the May heifer better or higher performing? To me it just means that she got alot more TLC. As far as EPDs go we throw them out the window. I put more faith in an animals appearance then in numbers. I would rather calve out 90# slender calves then 80# blocks. I think EPDs are a usefull tool but there are to many variables that can skew the numbers in either direction for me to have to much faith in them.

You need to remember that in todays cattle business EPDs are a marketing tool used and abused by many breeders, not necassarily a buyers tool that will help them buy cattle. In our breed there are basically two factions of breeders - A) breeders that pay closer attention to the animal as a whole (bw, ww, structure, etc.) and B) people (notice I didn't say breeders) that breed their cattle by adding the numbers up to get the maximum EPDs reguardless of the characturistics (bad feet, legs etc) of the actual animal that they are breeding. Guess I have a problem feeding one that I don't like to look at, most of our top EPD cattle go to the cull pen because they are dinks.

 

[shorthorns r us]

my target was any breed association that might have gotten splattered