Bradenh
Well-known member
Good deal I figured and hoped a smokey would take it.
ft worth steer show
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JSchroeder
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If it were just one judge, I'd chalk it up to a specific judge. It's become a rather large trend in recent years based largely upon the type of judges the majors have been using.
I like seeing cattle that can walk too, in the field. When their calves get to the end of the line where the only walking they have left to do is on to the trailer and in to the kill pen, movement is an after thought.
All I ask is that if you are going to judge a show, judge it based on what the animals are meant for. When you start going outside the scope of what the cattle are meant for in some sort of idealistic statement, you are showing a level of hubris I don't have much of a stomach for.
(to be clear I didn’t see anything at the FW steer show, I’m talking about the idea of movement in terminal steers, not what he picked)
I like seeing cattle that can walk too, in the field. When their calves get to the end of the line where the only walking they have left to do is on to the trailer and in to the kill pen, movement is an after thought.
All I ask is that if you are going to judge a show, judge it based on what the animals are meant for. When you start going outside the scope of what the cattle are meant for in some sort of idealistic statement, you are showing a level of hubris I don't have much of a stomach for.
(to be clear I didn’t see anything at the FW steer show, I’m talking about the idea of movement in terminal steers, not what he picked)
Telos
Well-known member
Jeff_Schroeder said:
A steer comes from a sire and dam. All, even the steers, need to be athletic and able to walk with ease. Therefore a steer, especially a show steer, needs to be able to walk well. And not just to the feed bunk. Furthermore, these steers should have the structural integrity or proper design for this movement. From the photos taken by Barron, Jensen still choose calves that were way too straight. Many of the division winners, not all, were ridiculous. JMHO. (I know I'll catch hell from my comment). This and a rounder bone shape is the main reason why there are so many calves that become crippled.
JSchroeder
Well-known member
If he was able to walk well enough to get to the point he is at in the ring, why does how well he moves in the show ring matter?
(I'm not speaking of structural correctness, bone shape, etc., just movement.)
(I'm not speaking of structural correctness, bone shape, etc., just movement.)
Telos
Well-known member
Jeff - IMO, it matters because the ancestry of these steers are carrying genetics that fit poorly in the environment. These shows are about teaching us lessons. Some of us have missed the boat when it comes to designing the way these cattle look. Even carcass shows are objective. Just because you have a high cutting steer with a mass amount of muscle and good quality grade doesn't mean it is the most ideal especially if they come from animals that take a greater amount of input and are physically restricted in their movement along with numerous other issues.
CJC
Well-known member
You have to remember that a small % of these calves make it to the show ring. So if the other % goes to the feedlot to be feed out and they can't walk; Then they are not gaining like they should so the feed lot is loosing $. The first thing I look for is how good he or she moves. JMO cjc
JSchroeder
Well-known member
Telos, everything you mention has a place in the breeding ring but I’m talking about terminal steer shows.
Personally, I think the idea that people don’t acknowledge the difference between terminal and seed stock genetics is one of the best examples of the show ring disconnecting itself from reality. Any commercial cattleman worth his salt realizes there are matings targeted at replacement cattle and matings that target the end product.
That people now expect the epitome of the terminal cross, the show steer, to put so much emphasis on a trait that simply does not matter for a fed out terminal calf is just plain old silly.
Those calves are not in the show ring.
Why are you judging the calves in the show ring based on what you think the other calves are doing?
Nobody defending the importance of movement in terminal steers has focused on the actual calves being judged.
Personally, I think the idea that people don’t acknowledge the difference between terminal and seed stock genetics is one of the best examples of the show ring disconnecting itself from reality. Any commercial cattleman worth his salt realizes there are matings targeted at replacement cattle and matings that target the end product.
That people now expect the epitome of the terminal cross, the show steer, to put so much emphasis on a trait that simply does not matter for a fed out terminal calf is just plain old silly.
Those calves are not in the show ring.
Why are you judging the calves in the show ring based on what you think the other calves are doing?
Nobody defending the importance of movement in terminal steers has focused on the actual calves being judged.
I've been snowed in having to take care of cows and didn't get to make it to the show, which has just about killed me. First Fort Worth steer show I've missed since 1985.
Per the official show website, Grand was Landry Barton and Reserve was Chad Pechachek, both out of Class 10. Without seeing it, Class 10 has to have been one of the toughest ever. Out of the ten placing calves, you had Kolby Long (3rd), Brian Martin's son 4th, Bill Cody's daughter 5th, and Colton Tucker 7th (his sister won Grand 2 or 3 years ago).
The lightweight champion exotic was shown by Taylor Schertz, also a Charolais-X I believe.
This will open up the floodgates for colored steers to show up in force next year.
Per the official show website, Grand was Landry Barton and Reserve was Chad Pechachek, both out of Class 10. Without seeing it, Class 10 has to have been one of the toughest ever. Out of the ten placing calves, you had Kolby Long (3rd), Brian Martin's son 4th, Bill Cody's daughter 5th, and Colton Tucker 7th (his sister won Grand 2 or 3 years ago).
The lightweight champion exotic was shown by Taylor Schertz, also a Charolais-X I believe.
This will open up the floodgates for colored steers to show up in force next year.
jbh
Well-known member
chambero said:
SFASUshowman
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I understand what everyone is saying about terminal steer shows. What you have to remember is this is a SHOW it is not the feedlot. The shows are supposed to represent the best of the industry, and lets face it, soundness issues do NOT represent the best of the industry. I judged collegiately pretty succesfully a few years back and I have judged quiet a few shows. I can tell you one time that I used an unsound steer to win. He was extremely post legged in a collegiate contest, but in my opinion, he just out horsed the rest of the class in all other areas by so much that he couldnt help but win, but you better believed I talked his poor structure in the reasons room. Luckily the officials that day agreed with me, even though my coach was about ready to skin me allive for using an unsound steer.
I agree that animals have to be sound, they have to be sound for me to, but I do think an unsound steer can move ahead of a sound steer. IF he is ready to kill that day. In my opinion if a judge uses an unsound steer, then that steer better blow the rest of the show away when it comes to total product, and that steer absolutely has to be finished correctly to be ready to kill that day. I dont care how much muscle an unsound steer has, if he isnt finished I am not using him because he still needs time on feed and if he cant walk there is no guarantee he is gonna stay on feed. And when you come to shows like Ft Worth, I just dont think those unsound steers are gonna blow away all of the sound ones enough to make me want to use them.
So I understand what is being said about a terminal steer. But you have to understand that if we as judges make a habbit out of using unsound animals in the show ring then we are advocating unsound animals, and that is not good for the industry. Just look at the troubles some breed associations had with things like frame size and structure issues in the past, those traits got passed on because judges used animals like that to win shows and people started breeding them. In the show pig world some yrs ago judges started picking freakishly muscled, super lean pigs. So people went out and found what would make them and brought the Pietran genetics to the U.S. now we have Stress to worry about. In the Halter horse world judges continuously picked the super freaky muscled, small boned Impressive genetics now they have HYPP and super fine boned poor structured horses running rampant. All of these problems we talk about needing to fix, and most of them started with judges continuing to pick those animals in the show ring.
So terminal or not, I think its very important for a judge to pic a COMPLETE animal, not the superfreak in the pen, but the complete one.
I agree that animals have to be sound, they have to be sound for me to, but I do think an unsound steer can move ahead of a sound steer. IF he is ready to kill that day. In my opinion if a judge uses an unsound steer, then that steer better blow the rest of the show away when it comes to total product, and that steer absolutely has to be finished correctly to be ready to kill that day. I dont care how much muscle an unsound steer has, if he isnt finished I am not using him because he still needs time on feed and if he cant walk there is no guarantee he is gonna stay on feed. And when you come to shows like Ft Worth, I just dont think those unsound steers are gonna blow away all of the sound ones enough to make me want to use them.
So I understand what is being said about a terminal steer. But you have to understand that if we as judges make a habbit out of using unsound animals in the show ring then we are advocating unsound animals, and that is not good for the industry. Just look at the troubles some breed associations had with things like frame size and structure issues in the past, those traits got passed on because judges used animals like that to win shows and people started breeding them. In the show pig world some yrs ago judges started picking freakishly muscled, super lean pigs. So people went out and found what would make them and brought the Pietran genetics to the U.S. now we have Stress to worry about. In the Halter horse world judges continuously picked the super freaky muscled, small boned Impressive genetics now they have HYPP and super fine boned poor structured horses running rampant. All of these problems we talk about needing to fix, and most of them started with judges continuing to pick those animals in the show ring.
So terminal or not, I think its very important for a judge to pic a COMPLETE animal, not the superfreak in the pen, but the complete one.
Hey found this pic of the grand steer, pretty cool imo. Last I heard he is a Milkman calf
https://www.barronphotografix.net/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=118957&zoom=yes
https://www.barronphotografix.net/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=118957&zoom=yes
If a MARKET animal is sound enough to enter the ring he was sound enough to make it to the feedbunk and back. If they are sound enough to make it back out of the ring they are sound enough to get on the truck and walk to the kill floor. (argue)
cookcattleco
Well-known member
Anybody know where the champ and reserve came from. and what the reserve was.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
MCC said:
There is a large feedlot close to us. Your comment is not really reflective of real world. The cripples get pushed around in the feed lot. They don't have pans, air conditioning, rinsing daily to make sure they eat. The unsound steers that could not get around the sound one's in the feed lot are culled early or don't finish as well. Show steers do not have to fight to the feed bunk they just have to stand in a pen and eat. This is just my opinion on my minimal observations.
Just looked over Barron Photografix pics of the show....the judge sure did pick lots of colored calves. Or at least more than normal IMO. The pics of the Grand are pretty nice. Looks like a pretty complete calf. I'm glad a colored calf finally won too-I am partial to colored cattle.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
PS
The Shorthorn steer or shorthorn appearing steer in the Final Drive class looks AWESOME. Would love to know the breeding on that one.
The Shorthorn steer or shorthorn appearing steer in the Final Drive class looks AWESOME. Would love to know the breeding on that one.
DLD
Well-known member
A judges job is to choose a winner based upon a combination of traits. Obviously, there has to be some give and take as some judges will stress certain traits above others - if they didn't, there'd be no need for more than one judge and one show. If show steers were chosen purely based on carcass traits, then why would things like balance and a good look matter? They matter because it's a show.
Personally, I find a poorly moving steer to be unattractive - apparently I'm not alone in that. If there weren't sound steers there that offered more than acceptable carcass (and showring) traits, then I can understand using one that might have some soundness issues, but there's rarely a shortage of steers that are sound moving and plenty good enough in every other way to use in any major these days.
I also take exception with the theory that if one can get around the ring, he would've done fine in the feedlot. We all know the huge amount of TLC that goes into most of these show cattle - hoof trimming, heavily bedded stalls and pens, supplements for movement, expensive rations and supplements designed for improved appetite and gain to make up for the slower gaining ones. We could argue from now on about just how much good all these things really do, but the bottom line is every one of us who takes it (showing steers) seriously will do all of these things if we have one that we think needs it and is good enough to warrant it. Secondly, take a look at how the mates to these steers "that aren't quite sound enough to show" get along at the sale barn - that alone should be enough to convince you that the commercial industry couldn't care less about our "terminal crosses". If you fed many of them, you know the unsound ones are almost always hard doers - it just goes with the territory.
Personally, I find a poorly moving steer to be unattractive - apparently I'm not alone in that. If there weren't sound steers there that offered more than acceptable carcass (and showring) traits, then I can understand using one that might have some soundness issues, but there's rarely a shortage of steers that are sound moving and plenty good enough in every other way to use in any major these days.
I also take exception with the theory that if one can get around the ring, he would've done fine in the feedlot. We all know the huge amount of TLC that goes into most of these show cattle - hoof trimming, heavily bedded stalls and pens, supplements for movement, expensive rations and supplements designed for improved appetite and gain to make up for the slower gaining ones. We could argue from now on about just how much good all these things really do, but the bottom line is every one of us who takes it (showing steers) seriously will do all of these things if we have one that we think needs it and is good enough to warrant it. Secondly, take a look at how the mates to these steers "that aren't quite sound enough to show" get along at the sale barn - that alone should be enough to convince you that the commercial industry couldn't care less about our "terminal crosses". If you fed many of them, you know the unsound ones are almost always hard doers - it just goes with the territory.
donorheaven
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- Aug 23, 2010
- Messages
- 131
My niece showed a Red Jakes Proud Jazz calf we raised to second place in the AOB class that had 72 calves. He was the lightest steer in the class. Will try to get a pick.
My comments are reflective of the real world. I work at a research feedlot and there is a 60,000 head JBS feedlot right across the feed alley from us so I'm around feedlot cattle every day. Trust me if they can walk on the truck when there finished they get shipped. I'm not talking about crippled cattle I'm talking about cattle that don't move perfectly in some people's opinion. As for having to fight at the bunk I don't know how your feedlots are set up but here the cattle have plenty of bunk space and are fed 3 times a day so there's no fighting at the feed bunk.OH Breeder said:
