ft worth steer show

[JSchroeder]

It doesn't matter if they'd get around in a feed lot.  We're talking about terminal steers, not feeders, they aren't going to a feed lot, they're done feeding.  That's the entire point I'm making.

They moved well enough to get the point they are at while doing so in the environment they were raised in.  Claiming you don't think they move well enough when an otherwise great calf is right in front of you doesn't mean the calf doesn't move well enough, it means what you think about the impact movement has on the calf is flawed.

I like seeing a steer that moves nicely as well.  However, I differentiate between what I like to see and what should be stressed in a terminal steer show.

I can see a rational reason for every other trait we stress in the ring (other than hair) but movement?  You have to start with that idealistic, change the world, "what about their mates" stuff to even start making that argument.

Breeding shows?  Completely different story.

 

[Telos]

Calves that have mobility issues are not a good thing to look at. That is the main reason a judge walks steers around the showring. IMO their job is to evaluate cattle that fits in well with all segments of the industry.

How we go about breeding these steers should be thought out as well. When people get a high percentage of calves that have structure problems then probably we could be doing something better to eliminate this.

For all the bad breeding decisions comes a multitude of good. Now, almost everyone is conscious of this and trying to breed correctly made calves.

Even though I thought some of the Fort Worth division steers appeared to be too straight I did like his selection of the Grand. If every feedlot operators calves looked similar to him they would be happy campers.

 

[JSchroeder]

I know why they do it, I'm saying it's a misguided sense of idealism in feeling that you need to teach people a lesson by emphasising the selection terminal steers based on a trait that has no bearing on the end product.

There are far too many "segments of the industry" for anything to fit well within all of them.  By trying to find something that fits in all segments, you ensure that you don't excel in any of them.

Some people seem to have forgotten the idea of the terminal cross when it comes to terminal steer shows.

 

[jbw]

These animals that we are taking to the shows are supposed to be the superstuds, the men among men, the Shaqs, Kobe Bryants, Derek Jeters, of the steer world.  When you bring out a finale drive you want to see the ones that don't have any flaws. 

No one would have ever watched Baywatch if all the ladies were gimpy!! (lol) <beer>

 

[JSchroeder]

To be clear again, I'm not talking about gimpy calves or cripples.  I'm talking about the idea of taking one steer over another because one covers his tracks better than the other or has just a bit more flex in his hock.

 

[ruhtram]

Hey found this pic of the grand steer, pretty cool imo. Last I heard he is a Milkman calf
https://www.barronphotografix.net/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=118957&zoom=yes

That steer looks sweet! is FW the only Major to show with hair?

 

[Telos]

Here is a pic of him.

="http://i55.tinypic.com/nlo68p.jpg" a>

 

[WMW11]

Does anyone know if the two that won Grand and Reserve had planned on taking their calves on to the slick shows.  Glad that it is not always a black show.

 

[mooch]

To be clear again, I'm not talking about gimpy calves or cripples.  I'm talking about the idea of taking one steer over another because one covers his tracks better than the other or has just a bit more flex in his hock.

As opposed to taking the one that has been implanted more? , pumped more , bigger boned ( we don't eat bone here)  hairier ( or hair), deepest amount of rib cover( seeing some pushing acceptable limits), prettiest fronted, biggest hipped ? It goes on and on . It takes a deciding factor to distinguish one animal  from the others. It isn't like it was before when one invidual stuck out from the others in an obvious way.Judges today can find the steer they want that fits their other criteria and still have him be able to move.To me its a must.

 

[Freddy]

There is one factor that you guys are not looking at that is therre to stay an always has been . When you agree to show in a show it is usually one judge ,
an his opinion on that show is what your going to be expected  to honor there decision, an it prooably might be totally different at the next judge you go to .
The size of your shows in Texas I sure  would expect  the cattle to move  an walk very well,maybe that was what the judge used for the difference in those top five .

Its just one show ane one judge an thats the way it  goes ....

 

[WB]

Hey found this pic of the grand steer, pretty cool imo. Last I heard he is a Milkman calf
https://www.barronphotografix.net/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=118957&zoom=yes

That steer looks sweet! is FW the only Major to show with hair?

Fort Worth is the only Texas Major to show with hair, San Antonio and Houston are slick shows

 

[SFASUshowman]

To be clear again, I'm not talking about gimpy calves or cripples.  I'm talking about the idea of taking one steer over another because one covers his tracks better than the other or has just a bit more flex in his hock.

I understand your not talking about gimps, but stop and think about the level of competition we are talking about here.  I didnt see the show in person, I have seen some pics, but being there in person tells a whole different story.  So considering the level of competition, stop and consider how much difference there probably actually was in these top 2? Probably not much, I would venture to guess the judge had to stop and get nit picky to find something to sort them on.  That day the advantage went to the free moving steer that covered his tracks better.  But most of us havent heard from the judge on this.  We had a spectators opinion, his opinion was on the move he liked the champion better(they were probably pretty close) and standing still he lliked the reserve better(still probably very close). And we dont know exactly why he liked the champion better on the move, maybe he got a little narrower on that back end, but when set up the exhibitor got those legs pushed apart makeing him look wider. 

But playing devil's advocate, I have to bet there wasnt a whole lot of difference among those top 2 steers.  It was probably just a little subtle difference that made one Batman and Robin!

 

[JSchroeder]

It takes a deciding factor to distinguish one animal  from the others. It isn't like it was before when one invidual stuck out from the others in an obvious way.Judges today can find the steer they want that fits their other criteria and still have him be able to move.To me its a must.

Firstly, it’s become much more than just a small thing in today’s show ring.  When judges make their initial cut while steers are on the move, it’s not just a way to differentiate between two otherwise identical steers.
Secondly, why is it a must in a calf that is already fed?

There is one factor that you guys are not looking at that is therre to stay an always has been . When you agree to show in a show it is usually one judge , an his opinion on that show is what your going to be expected  to honor there decision, an it prooably might be totally different at the next judge you go to.

It’s much more than just one judge today.  San Antonio has seemingly made a point to use those types of judges in the past few years.
SFASUshowman, while the way you describe it was a pretty good description how much it was stressed a few years back, it’s much more than just the final grain of salt to tip the balances now.
Personally, I think the fact that people have defended it with everything but a reason it should matter in a terminal steer speaks volumes.

 

[chambero]

Soundness and ability to move is just as important as one being level made across the hips, clean fronted, and deep bodied.  None of those traits truly matter for a terminal animal.  In reality, I consider ability to move in a terminal animal as being an indicator of one that doesnt have too much muscle.  I dont think I've ever seen a properly finished cripple.  A champion at one of our TX majors is pretty close to a perfect terminal steer.  Being able to carry that much muscle plus finish plus look pretty and walk is part of the perfect equation.

 

[Telos]

Soundness and ability to move is just as important as one being level made across the hips, clean fronted, and deep bodied.  None of those traits truly matter for a terminal animal.  In reality, I consider ability to move in a terminal animal as being an indicator of one that doesnt have too much muscle.  I dont think I've ever seen a properly finished cripple.  A champion at one of our TX majors is pretty close to a perfect terminal steer.  Being able to carry that much muscle plus finish plus look pretty and walk is part of the perfect equation.

Very well said, Chambero. 

Even the very seasoned steer fitters will tell you of their bad experiences with calves that had a difficult time on the move. In many cases this is what separates a good calf from a bad ones.

Structural integrity should always be a key component for selecting a steer.

 

[JSchroeder]

Soundness and ability to move is just as important as one being level made across the hips, clean fronted, and deep bodied.  None of those traits truly matter for a terminal animal.

I used to feel the same way about all of those traits but was convinced over time that there were legit reasons to favor them in terminal calves.

In reality, I consider ability to move in a terminal animal as being an indicator of one that doesnt have too much muscle.

When combined with the preference for moderately framed calves it also serves to favor shorter bodied calves.

I dont think I've ever seen a properly finished cripple.

I’m not talking about the calves that are crippled.  I’m talking about the huge emphasis put on flex of hock and covering tracks.

Even the very seasoned steer fitters will tell you of their bad experiences with calves that had a difficult time on the move. In many cases this is what separates a good calf from a bad ones.

Which is why it’s very important to consider movement in a prospect calf.  However, by the time they’re fat, they are by definition not one of the calves you are speaking of.

I really feel like I’m derailing this thread a bit too far at this point.  It would probably be best to continue the discussion on a proper thread at another time.

 

[knabe]

Calves that have mobility issues are not a good thing to look at. That is the main reason a judge walks steers around the showring.

perhaps we should have a show where they don't move and one where they do.  kinda like how there are slick and hair shows.

 

[shortyisqueen]

Soundness and ability to move is just as important as one being level made across the hips, clean fronted, and deep bodied.  None of those traits truly matter for a terminal animal.

I used to feel the same way about all of those traits but was convinced over time that there were legit reasons to favor them in terminal calves.

You have provoked some interesting conversation, that is for sure. What DO you find legit about the above reasons in selecting terminal cattle? I can see clean fronted (better cutability?), but deepier bodied cattle are sometimes wasty, and a level hipped steer doesn't make for a higher yielding or more marbled carcass. Massive bone size is another one I find questionable. If we are actually concerned with the steer hanging up the optimum carcass, we should be selecting more moderate bone size, as large bone often correlates with decreased marbling. Yet we still select for the steers with the biggest bone and the widest a$$ (when visual width doesn't necessarily end up giving you the best carcass either).

And, if we are judging all of these steers on being optimum terminal animals, should their ADG be brought into the equation? I can't see it happening, especially when we spend so much time targeting calves for a specific date. I see the (perhaps over)emphasis on movement you mean – but nothing drives me crazier than a judge placing them thickest to least thick without seeing the whole picture.

 

[chambero]

[When combined with the preference for moderately framed calves it also serves to favor shorter bodied calves.

I dont think I've ever seen a properly finished cripple.

I’m not talking about the calves that are crippled.  I’m talking about the huge emphasis put on flex of hock and covering tracks.

Point taken on favoring short bodied calves, which I don't like.  A great example is the discussion of a bull on here (I forget which) a few weeks ago.  The bull was sound as a cat as far as I'm concerned but he didn't reach his front tracks.  The bull was too long relative to his height and he physically couldn't reach them.

 

[spb]

What was the dam side of the grand