Halter Breaking question

[firesweepranch]

So, we have a steer that is a bit nasty to work with. His previous owner allowed him to get loose too many times, so he knows when he wants, he can just drop his shoulder and head right and away he goes. At first, we were just going to give up on him and eat him. But now my daughter wants to try again (crazy, I know). The last time we tried about three weeks ago, he got lose when we were trying to load him on the trailer to take him to the Steirwalt clipping clinic. We finally caught him, put a nose squeeze on him (which really ticked him off), and after several minutes of struggling he broke away again. I had to get the tractor out to put him back (he walked just fine behind the tractor!).
So, my question is, what is that "Breaking Halter" I have seen; it had a metal loop for the nose with a ring on th top, and a chain for around the ears. Does something like that really work? He has a little mean/stubborn streak in him.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions  ;D

 

[advocate]

Put a ring in him

 

[steer-guy]

it sounds like the steer has a little bit of size to him. I would suggest putting a REAL nose ring in his nose. Do not use it for 2 weeks. After that, put your nose lead in and only use it if he tries to pull away. This will probably stop his bad habit.

 

[MCC]

Find a donkey and hook him on for a week. The nose leads might work but I'm afraid if he can't get away he might start running over the top of you. I'd let the donkey take the punishment.

 

[farmboy]

sounds like he's to far gone to mess with unless you want to get someone hurt

 

[firesweepranch]

The only "hurt" someone might get is rope burns  He just knows he can get away. So I guess no one has used the breaking halter? We thought about a ring, but not sure we want to do that. Does it look bad if a steer comes into the show ring with a nose ring?
Oh, and we have no access to a donkey. He is about 850 pounds, so isn't that a bit big for a donkey anyway?

 

[shortdawg]

I bet he would be tasty on the grill !

 

[GRANDV]

No not to big for a donkey. It works great for what you need.

 

[cowman 52]

Donkey will work-- around here tie him to the 2yr old bull  at tie out time and dare him to try and pull him off-- if you ever can hold him up a time or two he will probably figure out it ain't worth the effort

 

[MCC]

I've got two of those Big Jim halters you are talking about. Never had any luck with them. DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! Years ago when I was much younger I was getting two pens of feeder calves ready to go to Denver for a guy. He had one calf that would run away with you. Finally put him in the squeeze chute and put a Johnson halter on him with about a 20 ft. piece of rope on the end. (This was before donkey's were invented) Tied the end of the rope to the bottom of the chute opened the head gate and hotshotted him out of there. With a full head of steam he hit the end of the rope and down he went. Thought I killed him. When he got up I lead him to the fence and tied him up. He never ran off again and I never tried that trick again.

 

[Aussie]

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! Years ago when I was much younger I was getting two pens of feeder calves ready to go to Denver for a guy. He had one calf that would run away with you. Finally put him in the squeeze chute and put a Johnson halter on him with about a 20 ft. piece of rope on the end. (This was before donkey's were invented) Tied the end of the rope to the bottom of the chute opened the head gate and hotshotted him out of there. With a full head of steam he hit the end of the rope and down he went. Thought I killed him. When he got up I lead him to the fence and tied him up. He never ran off again and I never tried that trick again.

As MCC said do not use this method it is a very quick way to break an animals neck. BTW Do you guys only use Jack donkeys thats all I have been told to use.

 

[MCC]

Do you guys only use Jack donkeys?

Aussie, we have used both jacks and jenny's. Some of my best breakers have been jenny's.

 

[Freerider]

Tie early and tie often.Double rope halter and have one with a extra lead always snubbed of to something (8-10ft, not 20) and never, never, never him get free again, never.  Never.

I agree with this. You should also tie this guy up for 4hrs a day with his head up for about a week, that will change his attitude.  It has worked for me you just have to try harder than him, and be patient.


I've also found tying younger calves to a collar around their mothers neck (if the mother leads good), that way they'll learn right away they can't get away. (too late for that in your case)

 

[Bradenh]

i have used a true 'breaking halter' and i would tell you it does no good on breaking them what so ever., , , i like the donkey idea best. a nose ring on a calf wont really look too bad, seen many of them and alot of people wont let their kids show a calf if it doesnt have a nose ring. . . .another thinng that works but requires caution is tie his head up HIGH and sit with him (or around him, for the calfs safety) and eventually after an hour or so for a couple of days. that head will get sore and he wont  have any desire to break and run if he has a banging head ache. just yank the rope while you lead him if he goes fast and he will slow down if he is sore enough

 

[knabe]

place calf in pen with lead rope longer than the diameter of the pen, or at least longer than the radius.

hold the rope with some tension until the calf releases the tension.  reward the release of tension with scratching.

build on this in small increments of the calf releasing the tension.

at some point, this will evolve into the calf actually taking a step.  don't ask for more than this.

do this on both sides and observe the differences in behavior and improve your skill rather than worrying about the skill of the calf and put the responsibility on yourself rather than the calf.

you can play little games by getting out of eyesight, which may include crouching and without tension on the rope and observe if the calf is even interested in you.  lift the slack in the rope, does the calf immediately seek to move, look at anywhere but you?  is the calf invading your space, even if that space is 10 feet away.  they should act the same whether you are next to them or 10 feet away.  if they don't, do more observing and find out exactly what it is that gets the calf interested in you on their terms rather than on yours.  if you are not interesting, you will have more difficulty and will jump to the conclusion you need to use force of some kind.  you will have trained yourself to treat all calves the same if they all don't respond the same. find areas to scratch them that they can't easily reach, like between their front legs, either side and under their tailhead.

 

[CANsteer]

here is the link to the "be a champ" clinic. it is basicly the same as what knabe posted.
http://www.24-7agtv.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=1&id=54

 

[knabe]

the difference btwn the video and my comments is that you have a "trained" calf and need to go slower, not faster. 

when they haven't learned an undesirable behavior, it's easier to duplicate the training in the video.

 

[CLMAngus]

I know this is a cheap trick but it always seems to work. If he is pulling away soon after you grab the rope just get a halter and hook it up to a longer lead (this will probably kind of ruin the halter). Then have someone with one end wrapped around a post. They can let it out slow but if he takes off the combo of you, the other person, and the friction from the wrap will make it impossible to get away. If he fails several times they usually give up. And remember don't hold the steers head up. Just give little jerks on the halter to keep their attention and keep them knowing you aren't letting them drop the head. Its much easier on the arm

 

[kevin guinn]

Put a chain halter on him with an old lead rope that you dont care about about anymore and let him drag it for a week, he will come around give him time and dont stop working with him. work with him as much as you can and he knows he can get away. So you have got yourself into a hole and you have got to just start holding on. you will get him!

 

[firesweepranch]

place calf in pen with lead rope longer than the diameter of the pen, or at least longer than the radius.

hold the rope with some tension until the calf releases the tension.  reward the release of tension with scratching.

build on this in small increments of the calf releasing the tension.

at some point, this will evolve into the calf actually taking a step.  don't ask for more than this.

do this on both sides and observe the differences in behavior and improve your skill rather than worrying about the skill of the calf and put the responsibility on yourself rather than the calf.

you can play little games by getting out of eyesight, which may include crouching and without tension on the rope and observe if the calf is even interested in you.  lift the slack in the rope, does the calf immediately seek to move, look at anywhere but you?  is the calf invading your space, even if that space is 10 feet away.  they should act the same whether you are next to them or 10 feet away.  if they don't, do more observing and find out exactly what it is that gets the calf interested in you on their terms rather than on yours.  if you are not interesting, you will have more difficulty and will jump to the conclusion you need to use force of some kind.  you will have trained yourself to treat all calves the same if they all don't respond the same. find areas to scratch them that they can't easily reach, like between their front legs, either side and under their tailhead.

Knabe
We knew when we got him he had gotten away, and I watched the video you posted (I think it was you) about putting them in a pen and haltering, then with time letting them out on a long rope and pulling them to you... basically what you described above. We did that with him, and he was not getting away from me. Then all of a sudden, after the snow, he went bizzerk. Now, we did pull the heifers out of the pens around him and put them in pasture (they were halter broke enough to put out, and come in in the morning to get tied and fed and back out at night). He is in the pen next to them, and bawls all the time for them. I wonder if he did not flip because he is all alone? Then is when he got to the point we could not hold him. He is in a 24 x 24 pipe pen, and leads OK in there, it is just when you take him out. Would it work if we had a second halter hooked to the tractor as a back up with someone driving it while someone else walked next to him to actually lead him? He walks, just jets away when he wants. We only have rope halters, should I get one of the ones with chains at the bottom that stay on all the time? Do you have more control with a chain? We never had to use one.
Oh, I like the idea of breaking calves by tying them to thier mothers! Awesome idea... do you tie them like a donkey (all day) or just do that when you are bringing the cow in?

Thanks for everyone's help so far. I think this weekend we will try again, and keep it up if it is successful.