Heifer vs. Steer Champions

[3GenCattle]

After years of going to shows, showing heifers and steers a thought continues to come to my mind about the judges and their reasons when selecting their champions. We show in four different states at various different shows ( large multi state shows / local county fairs) and I usually see/hear the same thing. The top heifers are usually very pretty made purebred heifers (Angus) win overall champion and in the steer shows some clubby freak steer that is so massive that he is borderline in his soundness wins. I am not sure what the judges are saying? These pretty heifers that are winning will not produce the winning steers? Last time I checked, the freakiest clubby bull only contributes 50% of the offspring and the cow is the other half. I know a super freaky heifer with a freak club bull will not work, but wonder why the judges who love the freak steers, don't equally like the heifers who can produce that kind of calf. As a producer I find this puzzling!

 

[frostback]

If that's what your seeing then it sounds about right to me. A market show should result in a different outcome then a breeding show. Market show is all about meat production and a breeding show should be about raising the next generation of breeding animals. What exactly do you think a female raising the market steers should look like? 

 

[3GenCattle]

I am not complaining about the heifers that are winning. In fact, I usually really like the heifers that win. I guess to answer your question about what I think the champion should look like, it should be able to raise the champion steer? I don't think that is out of the question? I just feel that looking for particular traits in breeding heifers, then the steers should share some also??? I think you can raise heifers who are high capacity with the power to produce the "look" steer. Obviously the heifers need to be structurally correct because the clubby Bulls have enough issues they bring with their genetics.

 

[BroncoFan]

This could be a good thread if it got more attention. In my never to be humble opinion, not always the prettiest heifer will make the best steers. We bought a cow that was a state champion back in her day. Well there was a reason she was for sale. She stayed fleshy but her calves were never much to look at no matter who she was bred to. We finally shipped her. We have another cow that isn't much to look at but she throws a good one every year.  We have seen other cows that run the wrong direction and are a little straight but they'll throw a good one every year. It seems to me that the more clubby bred a cow is that is bred to a more clubby bull the more inconsistent the outcome.  It just seems to me that with clubbies you have to toe a thin line when trying to put the mass in calves without crippling them.

 

[shortyjock89]

So here's how I see it.

A while back, the champion females looked a lot more like the champion steers than they do today.  Freaky, very boxy, coarse, and usually suspect in their structure. After selecting these kinds of androgynous cattle for a while, show cattle producers figured out that this just didn't translate to good breeding stock most of the time.  Bulls like Warhorse, Double Stuff, and others like them were siring steers, heifers, bulls that were winning shows all the way up to national level.  The majority of these were junk as breeding cattle. So they started to select a bit more "seedstock" type to get the pretty, flat, good structured ones. 

This is where there has been a big divergence in the breeding behind females and steers that are winning shows, at least in breed categories at the State and National levels.  Look at breeds like Angus, Hereford, Charolais, and Limousin.  Sure, there are certain pedigrees that dominate shows, and don't do too well on the range, but there are certainly more commercially oriented pedigrees that can produce winners in female shows than in market shows. 

Now, that's not to say that some of these cows producing winning steers don't do well out on big pastures, but they're certainly in the minority.  They're most likely not going to raise bulls or females that will win breeding shows at NAILE or NWSS or Jr. Nationals.

The cattle that are being shown now are, in my opinion, much better than they were 20 years ago when I started my jr career.  We have figured out, to an extent, that not every cow can do it all, and our time is better spent tailoring breeding programs to either make winning steers or heifers.  Exceptions happen, yes, but I think they prove the rule more than anything.

 

[rrblack78]

We did several jackpots(7-8)plus the calf scramble progress show, ft wort, and Houston with a heifer(registered angus)and in Texas, at least this part of southeast Texas, the females that were winning were very "steer like". Our girl did very well, lots of class wins, even at the majors, breed wins and reserve British a couple of times but she always came up short behind the more market type steer sisters. Around here heifers need to deep bodied, powerful and an eye catching color(chromed,roan,paint)doesn't hurt either.

 

[stumpy]

I hate to jump into such a hot topic but in a perfect world the champion fale should be capable of producing the champion market animal but the truth is that the judge should select the critter that is the closest to ideal for each intended purpose. I may not be correct in my thought but ideals may not always produce reality.

 

[Medium Rare]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't see the issue with seed stock not being able to produce the end product as that is not their intended purpose. In "my world" the Champion Angus heifer could be bred to the Champion Shorthorn bull, (Seed Stock x Seed Stock), and the resulting maternal F1, which is actually terminal, would be able to raise a champion steer or market heifer when bred to an extreme terminal sire. In this situation you could/should argue that the champion crossbred heifer should be capable of producing a champion steer as she is not "seed stock".

Seed Stock x Seed Stock = F1 (commercial cow man/crossbred heifer class)

F1 (maternal terminal) x Terminal = Freak Nasty steer/market heifer (sole purpose in life is the rail)

Getting to the ideal end product is a process in the real world and the show ring should attempt to resemble the process.

 

[RyanChandler]

^

 

[3GenCattle]

After reading through some of the other thoughts, I understand some of the opinions, but I still can't get past the difference in attributes considered between heifers/steers......obviously the steers are being judged on their carcass potential and high retail cuts, but heifers should be judged that way also, or their ability to pass on their half of the genetics to their future offspring. Are the seed stock producers saying their heifers are better than the powerful cross bred heifers with some clubby bloodlines? If they acknowledge their heifers can't raise the champion steers, then what is their point? I only keep heifers that I think can produce the best possible offspring based on their genetic potential, and of course if the heifer lacks maternal instincts and does not wean a big calf, the pretty heifer gets an address change!

 

[RyanChandler]

After reading through some of the other thoughts, I understand some of the opinions, but I still can't get past the difference in attributes considered between heifers/steers......obviously the steers are being judged on their carcass potential and high retail cuts, but heifers should be judged that way also, or their ability to pass on their half of the genetics to their future offspring. Are the seed stock producers saying their heifers are better than the powerful cross bred heifers with some clubby bloodlines? If they acknowledge their heifers can't raise the champion steers, then what is their point?

There are two types of seedstock breeders.  One type of breeder breeds maternally oriented bulls whose purpose or 'point' is to supply the commercial cattlemen with bulls for the use of creating replacement heifers. The other type of seedstock breeder produces terminally oriented bulls whose purpose is to supply the commercial cattlemen with bulls to be crossed on maternal cows in order to produce terminal (market class) offspring.  Both types of seedstock breeders are imperative to efficient beef cattle production.  Each serves their specialized purpose and are evaluated independently based on how useful they are within each specialized field.  

Breeding heifers from maternal breeds (should be) evaluated by their ability to further reproduce maternally oriented bulls for the purpose stated above.  Breeding heifers from terminal breeds should be evaluated by their ability to further reproduce terminal oriented bulls for the purpose stated above.

Market (class) animals, both heifers and steers, are the END product resulting from crossing terminal bulls with maternal cows and should be judged based on their market/retail value. 

To answer your question-  you have to first define 'better.'  Better at what?  These powerful cross bred heifers you refer to are better in terms of their retail product value,  but because of the inherent terminal/maternal antagonism, these powerful androgynous heifers lack the maternal qualities (milk, fertility, etc.) needed to compete with breeding heifers, as far as reproducing and raising a calf is concerned, so in this regard, they are vastly inferior.