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Kupfarm

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I am a newbie to this forum.  I have looked at several and decided that I like this one the best.  I am a 4-H leader in Indiana and former beef member. 


I actually have several questions I am hoping you can help me with:
I have my understanding of the questions, but want the honest answers of people who are more in the know nowadays than me.


1. What is the difference between a steer Jock and a professional fitter? What is your meaning of both?  This is becoming a topic of interest to our livestock superintendents. 


2. Do your market heifers have to be preg. checked to show or sell in your 4-H shows?


If you can help me, I would be ever so grateful.
 

knabe

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Hollister, CA
Kupfarm said:
1. What is the difference between a steer Jock and a professional fitter? What is your meaning of both?  This is becoming a topic of interest to our livestock superintendents. 

in one sense, a professional is one who gets paid.  however, to me, steer jock, can be both a flattering word, or one of scorn.  steer jock can be a somewhat playful word, or for some parents of young girls someone who they are a little leery of (like myself).  steer jock, can mean someone who is really good, and does some business on the side.  of course there is some gray area here with professional fitters, as some obviously generate income eleswhere.  to me, if i wanted to flatter them, such as in publications or flyers, i would use professional fitter, cattle fitter etc.  it's kinda like the difference between having your shirt untucked vs tucking it in and wearing a belt, or perhaps putting a tie and coat on at church.  society used to know what a man was, nowadays, there is little transition to manhood, or adulthood, as we seem obsessed with eternal being a teenager.  as i'm writing this, i'm in a t-shirt with a sweatshirt at work.  doh.  if i was announcing on the intercom, i would say, "all cattle fitters to the registration booth please" instead of "hey steer jocks, ......".
 

justme

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I always thought of steer jocks that buy and resell steers...but its a vague term.  I know lots of professional fitters that don't "jockey" calves.  Like in everything there are good and bad.

Not sure on market heifers...good question!
 

Kupfarm

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Indiana
justme said:
I always thought of steer jocks that buy and resell steers...but its a vague term.  I know lots of professional fitters that don't "jockey" calves.  Like in everything there are good and bad.

Not sure on market heifers...good question!


I thought the same thing on the Jock part. 
IMO, a professional anyone is someone who has attended and passed a credited course in that area.  Professional cattle fitter is someone who has attended and complete a fitting school.  I know several fitters who are awesome, but it is all hands-on taught.
 

aj

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western kansas
iMHO steer jock is a crook and a professional fitter is a crook. I would think that a kinda pregnant market heifer's cuttability % would be hurt. However the showring is a different deal. I have always thought that the show ring and barn is a pretty small place compared to the gigantic egos of the people envolved. It is a place for explosions to occurr. I just love it when you walk down the aisle and everbody glares at each other and this breeder dislikes this breeder and this board member dislikes this board member and this guys daughter is is chasing anothers guys son and this guy cut in front of the other guy and some guys grandmother hated some gals grandson and then there are the democrats vs. the republicans and there is the aethist's vs. the mormans and the angus against the herfords and the maintainers against the shorthorn plus's and the organic against the steroid user's. This is better than soap operas in mho. Just kidding ;D
 

DLD

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(welcome)

I don't think there is enough of a clear cut difference in jocks and fitters to define. I think the most common definition of a professional is someone who gets paid for what they're doing.

I'm assuming that your livestock superintendents are looking for a way to limit their (steer jocks and/or professional cattle fitters) involvement at your show? If that's the case, it seems you have the choices of limiting it to "exhibitors only", or "exhibitors, 4H and FFA leaders only", or "exhibitors and their immediate family, 4H and FFA leaders only", or "county residents only" or some other combination thereof. I think it would be virtually impossible to eliminate all "professional help" without eliminating alot of non-professional help as well. No matter how you do it, remember that there will always be some people within the group that will be better fitters than others. Chances are good that if there are really competitive exhibitors in your county that somewhere among them will be young people (still showing themselves) who are getting paid for fitting for others.

We don't show market heifers in this part of the world, so I can't help you out there.
 

DLD

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knabe said:
and then there's the baking contest.

So if one in the oven = kinda pregnant, and semi-pro always means semi-paid, does that mean a baking steer jock is kinda professional?
 

knabe

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dang that was funny dld.

kinda like the railroading display?  no definition is static in the new world.  logic can not protect your kids anymore, as it's circular, just like the railroad, then there are those spurs, which is more equal, the spur or the loop.  my engine fried, and i can't reverse the field in my loop.  i'm not ready for the new world.
 

Kupfarm

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Indiana
Thank you everyone for your replies.  Yes, this is to avoid outside "professional help" on showday to the Youth. 

One super said they thought professionals were ok, but not Jocks.  So it is a grey area here.  And one of the supers could not even give a meaning for their idea of a Steer Jock.  I have come to realize people will complain even when they are hung with a new rope. 
 

DLD

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sw Oklahoma
knabe said:
dang that was funny dld.

kinda like the railroading display?  no definition is static in the new world.  logic can not protect your kids anymore, as it's circular, just like the railroad, then there are those spurs, which is more equal, the spur or the loop.  my engine fried, and i can't reverse the field in my loop.  i'm not ready for the new world.

True, and very profound, Knabe.
 

shorthorns r us

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Elbee should be proud to know that Kupfarm is using a picture of Gizmo as their avatar.


Oh, wrong Gizmo!
 

justme

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That usually is interrupted around here as immediate family only fitting.  but...that's around here in NW Missouri
 

Steered

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Spring Hill, Ks
As to your market heifer question... I would not think that it should be required that a market heifer be bred to show.  After all this is a market class and market heifers in a feed lot are not usually bred (even though I know a person that did an experiment by breeding some heifers in the last 60 or so days on feed and it increased the marbling on the carcasses.  But he felt the gain in carcass grade  was not worth the reduced feed efficiency while they were in heat).  If the show is a terminal show I would not breed the heifers, but most market heifers shown around here are bred and taken home after the show in hopes of raising a good steer.
 

rmbcows

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oklahoma
I'm going to vote for steer jocks and professional fitters as being one in the same.  And in my opinion, market heifers should be shown with the same criteria you would a steer,  by hip height or weight, and definately open.  
 

OH Breeder

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Steer Jock- my layman's terms- used car sales man. They look, find and sometimes rehab projects. Then they market their finds. There are some steer jocks that breed and sell but most seem to buy low and sell high with the additional services on occasion of fitting the animal after the sale and advising on feed etc.
Professional Fitter- An individual who fits cattle for their profession. I also know lots of folks that fit cattle that do not jockey steers.
As far as county fairs and grooming, we do all of our own. Although, my nephew works for a large farm and could be considered a professional fitter. Some folks may say we have an unfair advantage. I say go and get the videos- clip, nick and mess up your hair but try to do it on your own.

Market Heifers- We do not have them at the county level. We do at the state. I know some heifers that are sold being free martins for market specifically. Market heifers are usually clipped and shown like steers and should be in my mind treated like one. Fertility should not be part of the evaluation of a market animal.
 

justme

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I'd really hope they'd be open...in a real market situation, they don't like them bred. 
 

shortdawg

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(welcome) IMHO Steer Jocks and Professional Fitters are just like any other group of people in general; some you can trust and some you can't. Most but not all the time you can figure out which ones which pretty quick.
 

rmbcows

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OH Breeder said:
Steer Jock- my layman's terms- used car sales man. They look, find and sometimes rehab projects. Then they market their finds. There are some steer jocks that breed and sell but most seem to buy low and sell high with the additional services on occasion of fitting the animal after the sale and advising on feed etc.
Professional Fitter- An individual who fits cattle for their profession. I also know lots of folks that fit cattle that do not jockey steers.

OH Breeder.. I totally agree with your definitions.  In my lamely worded statement that they were one in the same, I was referring to whether they should be allowed to clip at the jr shows.  If you're trying to keep it down to just jrs and their families,  I can't see a difference in a steer jock or a professional fitter doing the clipping, neither is family. (unless you're lucky)
 
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