Horse exports......

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cowz

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This article was just in the Drover's Journal......food for thought.  Cull horses here are now worth $40-$200.  I see a day soon when people just turn them out on road ditches.  It takes a lot of fuel to send horses to Mexico.  We have more humane standards.  I just think this is sad.

From JAVMA:

Since all three U.S. horse slaughter operations were ordered closed last year, the number of horses exported to Mexico for slaughter has exploded. As of Dec. 20, 2007, 44,475 horses had been shipped to Mexico for processing for human consumption compared with 10,783 shipped at the same time in 2006—a 312 percent increase.

Especially troubling is the treatment of the horses once they cross the border into Mexico. In October, the Humane Society of the United States released a video showing the brutal stabbing death of a fully conscious horse at a Mexican slaughter facility. "It is time for this carnage to end," said Nancy Perry, HSUS vice president of government affairs, who called on Congress to close the border to horse slaughter exports.

In addition, American horse exports to Mexico for purposes other than slaughter, such as for breeding or recreation, have nearly doubled in the same period. This increase is raising concerns that many of these horses are actually being sent to slaughter but shipped under false pretenses to circumvent U.S. transport regulations governing the animals' welfare.

Despite the shuttering of the three U.S. horse slaughter plants, exporting horses for processing remains legal. Horse enthusiasts, however, have for years been pushing for a federal ban on what they say is an inhumane and un-American practice. The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, currently pending in Congress, would prevent any horse slaughter facility from operating in the United States as well as prohibit the shipment of horses to other countries for processing.

The AVMA and other AHSPA opponents contend that the assault of the anti-horse-slaughter coalition, led by HSUS, on the federally regulated horse slaughter industry has, in fact, led to the current welfare crisis. Unwanted horses fared much better when they were transported under government supervision to U.S. regulated facilities and humanely euthanized, they say. (Cavel International Inc., the foreign-owned operator of the Illinois slaughter plant, is appealing the state ban to the U.S. Supreme Court.)

"The reality is, proponents of this legislation have done nothing to address the real issue here, and, in fact, by seeking to ban horse slaughter, they have made things significantly worse," said Dr. Mark Lutschaunig, director of the AVMA Governmental Relations Division. Opponents of the federal ban say its supporters should instead focus their energies on addressing what to do with the some 100,000 horses relinquished by their owners each year to slaughter.

The end for horses sent to one of the U.S. slaughter plants was anything but humane, according to the HSUS. The regulations meant to protect them were inadequate as the horses suffered from a lack of food and water on crowded trailers, and the euthanasia was often mishandled, the organization claims. Rather than being slaughtered, HSUS says, unwanted horses can be placed with a rescue or retirement facility or, when no other options are available, humanely euthanized.

While there is little about horse slaughter on which the AVMA and HSUS agree, they're of the same mind when it comes to the serious welfare problem posed by the skyrocketing American horse slaughter exports to Mexico.

Given the high volume of American horses slaughtered annually when the U.S. processors were open, a spike in U.S. equine exports to Mexico was expected once they closed. According to the Department of Agriculture, a total of 138,206 American horses were processed in 2006. Of those, 102,260 were sent to U.S. facilities, 24,866 to Canadian facilities, and 11,080 to Mexican facilities.

But a fourfold increase in U.S. equine exports to Mexico, fueled by a growing surplus of unwanted horses at home and a high demand for horse meat abroad, still came as a surprise to some. "These are just remarkable numbers and not something I think any of us would have anticipated, even with the closing of the plants," said Dr. Timothy Cordes, senior staff veterinarian for equine programs with the USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.

The USDA estimates that 35,000 horses were sent to Canada for slaughter in 2007—about a 41 percent increase from the year before. Horse slaughter opponents are trying to shut down the industry there with a Canadian version of the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.

The Mexican horse slaughter industry is more worrisome than its Canadian counterpart, especially since more is known about the Canadian industry, which adheres to transport and euthanasia regulations similar to those in the United States. "One of the most daunting things about all of this is, once a horse crosses the border, it is no longer a U.S. horse. It becomes a Mexican horse. It loses its identity, it loses its citizenship, it loses its ownership," Dr. Cordes said.

When contacted by JAVMA News for information about their country's horse slaughter policies, Mexican officials referred to regulations stating the animals must be humanely euthanized in sanitary conditions.

Trying to get an idea of how the Mexican horse slaughter industry operates, a delegation from the American Association Equine Practitioners arranged a tour of several Mexican slaughter facilities in November 2007. But, according to Dr. Tom Lenz, chair of AAEP welfare committee, Mexican plant owners canceled the trip after recent negative media stories. The visit is being rescheduled and will most likely happen in early 2008. "The big question that's not been answered yet is how those (American) horses are handled in Mexican processing plants and euthanized," Dr. Lenz said.

Late last year, Dr. Lenz and other AAEP officials met with Mexican equine veterinarians to discuss the plants. Although he isn't positive, Dr. Lenz believes most American horses are going to facilities owned by European companies where horses are euthanized either by a captive bolt or gunshot, the same as in the United States and as required by Mexican law. Exact numbers aren't known but there may be as many as four such operations in Mexico, he said.

They might also be going to facilities that are in the process of becoming certified to export horse meat to Europe. "We're not 100 percent sure which type of plant American horses are going to, but it's one or the other," he said.

There are two other types of slaughter facilities in Mexico: municipal plants that process horses for local consumption and so-called clandestine facilities. "They're not regulated plants," Dr. Lenz said. "They're local butcher shops ... and that's where the greatest concern about how the horses are being handled and euthanized is." He believes it's this sort of operation featured in the HSUS video.

Another question is, if the slaughter ban were enacted, what would happen to all those horses whose owners no longer want them or can afford to keep them? Ban supporters say the nation's equine rescue and retirement facilities can absorb many of them. The HSUS points to groups such as the New York Racing Association that are raising money and working toward solutions for unwanted horses. Additionally, owners can opt for humane euthanasia by a veterinarian.

Ban opponents respond that this isn't realistic. Without the humane slaughter alternative, countless horses would be neglected or abandoned because there won't be enough homes for them. The AAEP estimates an additional 2,700 rescue facilities would be needed in the first year of the ban to care for the thousands of surplus horses. The costs of euthanasia and environmentally safe carcass disposal can run as much as $400 and may be more than some owners are willing to pay. Making matters worse is a hay shortage, brought on by droughts, which is making it more expensive to feed horses.

Then there's the strength of the international horse meat market, partly a result of outbreaks of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in European cattle. The price of horse flesh in Belgium is at an all-time high, according to Dr. Cordes. Considering the demand for horse meat and a surplus of unwanted horses in America, even under a federal transport prohibition preventing horses from crossing into Canada and Mexico for slaughter would be a challenge.

"It's really a matter of supply and demand. These horses are going to go across the border, one way or another," Dr. Cordes said, adding that the $5 million allocated in the horse slaughter prevention legislation for enforcement purposes isn't adequate to secure the borders. "It doesn't even come close," he said.

 

knabe

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when they start celebrating marriage to a horse on oprah, i officially quit.  remember, freedom is progressive.  frame it, frame it, frame it, that's their mantra.  i have a neighbor who rescues horses.  she just sold them cuz she can't afford to feed them and it was one big mud hole.  what is so wrong about eating horse?  living should be illegal, it causes global warming.  the "change" everyone is clamoring for is to exist as a brain with no requirement for sustanence.  only who will move the dead brains from the living brains.  vote democratic, it's the only way.  it's amazing how prejudice the left in general is against anyone who differs from them.  same can be said for the right.  both have their "i'm so outraged" hot button issues.

in the end, it's all about property rights and the lust to get rid of them.  be careful, they are coming for you next.  small steps, set the precedent, then go after the meat eaters.  so simple.
 

red

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I read that too Cowz.
Knabe, you just continue to blow away what little brain cells are left! (lol)

Red
 

knabe

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http://www.kpcnews.com/articles/2008/01/09/news/today/evening_star/doc478441f2313a5420740819.prt

see, this is how they screw you.  they get to vote twice, take an exemption twice on their taxes. 

same logic with horses.  the intent is to screw you, yet no one gets it.  their goal is to make them illegal.

at some point they will eat you, solylent green, because it reduces those who could vote against them.

they feeeeeel so good, and that's their goal too, feeeeeeeeling.

oh, wait, i just need to vote democratic or republican and we'll get "change"

what a joke.

everyone wants change for the other guy, not themselves.  ultimate in prejudice and bigotry, yet public is too stupid to recognize and the last 30 years of those in public schools have been taught this way and have no concept of reality.

tofu, it does testosterone good (er, bad)
 

Rocky Hill Simmental

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Horses are dirt cheap here. We've been trying to sell all our horses for a while now with no luck. It stinks that we sold half our cows to save hay but the horses are still here. lol Horses seriously waste hay. We put them in round feeders but they some how still manage to stomp it all.

Euthanization is way too expensive. When you slaughter a horse you get $1 on rail (probably $500 for a 1,000 lb horse) and euthanization is expensive (not to mention bad for the environment because it's basically poision).

Our local horse auction has almost as much drama as a junior high school. People are throwing fits, arguing, and half the horses they bring don't sell. The police are always there in case of a fight. Right now colts there are selling for under $50.

I wonder how many horses have already been dumped off in a road ditch. A few years ago there was a solid black stud horse running around here. Someone caught him but I don't know what happened after that.

I hope people begin to realize that they have done to the horse industry and to the horses because of these bans against horse slaughter. The kind of people who make me laugh are the ones against slaughter who aren't vegetarians but say "a horse deserves more than a cow/sheep/pig". I guess, according to them, horses are slightly more alive than other meat animals.  (lol)
 

knabe

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Rocky Hill Simmental said:
I wonder how many horses have already been dumped off in a road ditch. A few years ago there was a solid black stud horse running around here. Someone caught him but I don't know what happened after that.

with NAIS, we'll be able to catch those people and fine them cuz they will have a chip and their site will be registered.  then we can take away their property.  it's so simple.  i'll think i'll dump my horse in diane feinstein's front yard in SF on her stupid 15 million dollar house paid for with interest from 600 million dollars invested in china.  wait, first, since it's so simple to get a drivers license and SS card, i'll ask one of those guys to get me a chip registered to diane, and get her site registered as a NAIS site, and bingo.

and this

http://wcbstv.com/local/glenville.school.greenwich.2.626542.html

i don't ever remember this being a problem in school, why now, what are we teaching our kids that is different?
 

Jill

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Rocky Hill Simmental said:
I hope people begin to realize that they have done to the horse industry and to the horses because of these bans against horse slaughter. The kind of people who make me laugh are the ones against slaughter who aren't vegetarians but say "a horse deserves more than a cow/sheep/pig". I guess, according to them, horses are slightly more alive than other meat animals.  (lol)

I hope people begin to realize knabe's "small steps " isn't far from reality.  These folks started small, they've moved to horses, they eventually will get to the cow/sheep/pig.  We have humanize our animals to the point people forget where their food comes from.  "One of the most daunting things about all of this is, once a horse crosses the border, it is no longer a U.S. horse. It becomes a Mexican horse. It loses its identity, it loses its citizenship, it loses its ownership,".  That statement right there should scare you, when they get you to believe that your horse is an U.S. citizen they will start on the next animal.  I'm not for abuse, but come on folks animals were created to sustain life not the other way around.
 

knabe

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called feinstein AGAIN about this this mornig for the umteenth time.

any of you?

i have her number memorized and they know me by voice and know my zip cuz i call so often, but i still give it cuz it's on tape and they can be sure to not pass it on to the senator.  they are so helpful.
 

JbarL

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knabe said:
when they start celebrating marriage to a horse on oprah, i officially quit.  remember, freedom is progressive.  frame it, frame it, frame it, that's their mantra.  i have a neighbor who rescues horses.  she just sold them cuz she can't afford to feed them and it was one big mud hole.  what is so wrong about eating horse?  living should be illegal, it causes global warming.  the "change" everyone is clamoring for is to exist as a brain with no requirement for sustanence.  only who will move the dead brains from the living brains.  vote democratic, it's the only way.  it's amazing how prejudice the left in general is against anyone who differs from them.  same can be said for the right.  both have their "i'm so outraged" hot button issues.

in the end, it's all about property rights and the lust to get rid of them.  be careful, they are coming for you next.  small steps, set the precedent, then go after the meat eaters.  so simple.
for me the not eatin' horses is a old bible thing i was raised with....."clean" animals had divided hooves and "chewed of the cud"...jbarl
 

knabe

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the reason for that was that horses were used for work, military etc, not because they were unclean, like the pig issue, which isn't an issue any more either.  do you eat pig?  we couldn't have everyone eating the military vehicles, now could we?
 

Doc

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Knabe , have you seen this before?ARE WE NEAR THE END FOR AMERICA ?

This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming.

I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.

How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at
the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.'
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.' 'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benef its from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'during those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. from bondage to spiritual faith

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage'



Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000
Presidential election:

Number of States won by:

Gore: 19

Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by:

Gore : 580,000

Bush: 2,427,000


Population of counties won by:

Gore: 127 million

Bush: 143 million


Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Gore: 13.2

Bush: 2.1


Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great
country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United State s is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Profes sor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this then delete this message if you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at
stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.


 

JbarL

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wasnt it thomas jefferson that said...all democeracys need a revolution every now and then??.....great stuff doc and knabe....so if we control control the progress between abundance and complacancy.....we can get back to liberty and abundance,  by avoiding apathy to the extent of a revolution...to "retain" the liberty....my generation displayed a bit of a revolutionary attitude in the 60's and 70's....didnt have many 50+ yr olds supporting the cause back then....(my dad was definitly not one of them  :mad:) ..... lets not be apathetic about our 2nd amendment..." to protect ourselves from a teranous governement"........be it even our own??  jbarl
 

renegade

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I hate to say this because i know some people are going to be very mad but it is ARROGANT to think that horses being shipped to mexico are being treated worse than the ones that were slaughterd here in america! I challenge anyone who negitively commented on the ban of slaughter in the U.S. to look up how the animals here in america were treated before and during there slaughter. It CAN NOT be compared to the slaughter of cattle,sheep or pigs! There is more regulation on those animals, they equipment (when they are sold, shipped and slaughtered) is built for them and there tendancies, bodies, ect. Horses werent ment to be shoved together in tight quarters, too low for them. They are fight/flight animals. pigs, sheep and cattle arent gonna kick, bite, trample and kill each other. Stallions, mares, foals and geldings are shoved together...that spells trouble.

Horses are very sensitive to the fear and blood they smell in the air before slaughter and you will read horror stories about their slaughter. The ban of horse slaughter wont bring down america...that is just one of our numerous problems.

If nothing else u should at least be thankful for what horses have done for america. America wouldnt be the place that it is now without horses and that you cannot dispute.

Im sorry if anyone thinks im being too sensitive or that im trying to push my views on you but i cant avoid how i feel about it.
 

knabe

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Doc said:
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'

Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...'

yes i have, i've combined the two most illustrative points (to me).  democrats are more willing to place tariffs on taxpayers that provide jobs so the government can distribute money with an overinflated staff than they are a foreign country who has absolutely no similar regulations and restrictions.  i am sick of moral equivalency.  why don't we just all become headhunters, cannibals or human sacrifice cults if moral equivalency is so great.  at least then we would lower global warming. 

that's why we were set up as a republic, not a democracy.  we are converting this country to a democracy, and imposing one in iraq, this is why bush is so stupid and there really is NO difference between the republican and democratic parties and they both need to take their socialist, corporate facist, communistic views and be accountalbe to their cost on society.  but will the public do anything?  No, they are too busy watching the nightly news hoping for a temporary tax cut, or rate cut (inflationary).  they are just looking for handouts as usual.  and the schools keep teaching our kids to expect it.  so sad.  democrats are for vouchers for NPR radio, but not for schools.  so disgusting.
 

fluffer

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This may get a few noses bent out of joint (sorry in advance) but I believe this:

ONLY land owners should be able to vote in a presidential election.  None of us have a constitutional right to vote- Keep that in mind.  And Newhampsire just shows why women (and I am one) shouldn't be able to vote.  Obama got the female vote in Iowa, Hillary cries a little, and wins the majority of women votes a few days later.  Some vote based on feelings, not on issues.

Knabe your very right, teeny tiny steps are being taken to eliminate our freedom!  If it isn't the government, it will me Islamic fascism (sp?)

Fluffer
 

knabe

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fluffer said:
This may get a few noses bent out of joint (sorry in advance) but I believe this:

ONLY land owners should be able to vote in a presidential election.

i wonder if that quote has anything to do with this
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article3166507.ece


no wonder we don't celebrate washington's birthday anymore.  it's so politically incorrect.

should just have a civil rights day, not MLK day.  aren't we so over special people unless they are the correct special people?  oh wait, that's the path to power, more equal than others.  i forgot.

has any of you kids under 25 read 1984?
 

SWMO

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I usually avoid all political discussions but did anybody else catch what Obama said after winning Iowa?  I am paraphrasing "I will change the face of America and will also change the face of the world". 

Now Obama comes from a Muslim background.  Isn't that pretty much the same philosophy as Osma bin Laden?  I think Obama is the scariest candidate for President of the USA that I can remember.  How many of you all saw the picture circulating of him refusing to place his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegience earlier in 07?
 

showsteerdlux

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I am not impressed with Obama and if our country thinks that he can change washington... They are right. he will change it and turn it upside down and twist it up even worse than it is now. i was in Illinois last year and while I was waiting to watch a cow being flushed I heard the locals talking about what they thought of Obama. None of it was good and they used plenty of expletives to get the point across about what they thought of him. our country has come to a point of where we need to stop being so receptive and open minded when it comes to these issues in politics. Our founding fathers based this country on the Lord and I am proud to say that I am a believer in "In GOD We Trust". No not in muhammed we trust but"In GOD We Trust". Ok Ill step off my soapbox now.
 

Doc

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SWMO said:
I usually avoid all political discussions but did anybody else catch what Obama said after winning Iowa?  I am paraphrasing "I will change the face of America and will also change the face of the world". 

Now Obama comes from a Muslim background.  Isn't that pretty much the same philosophy as Osma bin Laden?  I think Obama is the scariest candidate for President of the USA that I can remember.  How many of you all saw the picture circulating of him refusing to place his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegience earlier in 07?
I agree with you 110% SWMO.  Unforunately it looks like we are in the minority, if it hadn't been for Billary tearing up on that one question, he would have gone 2 for 2. It's amazing how everybody thinks he is ok because someone like Oprah says he is. By the way you better be careful or Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson will label you a racist(which means I need to heed my on advice).JMO.
 

Jill

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SWMO said:
I usually avoid all political discussions but did anybody else catch what Obama said after winning Iowa?  I am paraphrasing "I will change the face of America and will also change the face of the world". 

Now Obama comes from a Muslim background.  Isn't that pretty much the same philosophy as Osma bin Laden?  I think Obama is the scariest candidate for President of the USA that I can remember.  How many of you all saw the picture circulating of him refusing to place his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegience earlier in 07?
He is the least qualified of any of the candidates, yet Oprah and crew and embraced him because he is black, talk about racist!  He won't wear an American flag, place his hand over his heart, he refuses to answer questions and is still on top, that ought to tell you about the choice of candidates this year.  Really sad!
 
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