*** How do you get a Heifer to stop kicking? ***

[kw kid]

Have a show heifer that will constantly take a swing at you in the stall, when using a showstick, washing, usually not  in the shoot (she seems comfortable there). She has got me many times not really hard mostly just a slightly lazy kick. But it is getting worse now just everytime you get beside her she will kick.  Now the kids are a little timid around her and that make everything worse. Does anyone have any ideas on helping with this??

Thanks

 

[shortdawg]

Tie her up daily and brush her legs with a broom until she realizes it's nothing she should be scared of. We do all our calves this way when we break them and we very seldom ever have a kicker.

 

[kw kid]

Tie her up daily and brush her legs with a broom until she realizes it's nothing she should be scared of. We do all our calves this way when we break them and we very seldom ever have a kicker.

We have showed her 3 times and we are going to 2 shows in 7days.  Should I try this I afraid it might freak her out more?????
thanks

 

[kfacres]

being a dairy farmer, we have plenty of ways to break kickers- none of which are able to write on here...  If that don't work, there is always the road to town... I do like that broom idea until she tires of kicking, did it once

 

[angus showman]

I had a heifer I showed a couple years ago that would kick every once in awhile unexpected I would blind fold her a few times when we fit her and used plastic combs but the one time I fit her she brushed me in the face and I got pissed and she was too good to give up on and my sister was working on her so I didn't want her to get kicked in the stalls working on her so I bought a kicker from sullivans never had anymore problems put it on her in the stall to brush legs at home and shows and also fit her with it on may get made fun of but my denist is expensive lol

 

[linnettejane]

lots of patience and hours of trying to work it out of her...

i've had a couple over the years that were like that...one would kick at "things" so i took about 15 empty 2 liter plastic pop bottles and laid them all throughout her stall, it kinda freaked her out at first, every time she would walk, one would move or get in her "zone" and she would kick...but she eventually got tired and quit....then everytime i would go in to clean out the stall, i would gently toss them close to her back legs with a pitchfork...she would kick at that too, but eventually she would get tired and just quit...everyday she would do it a little less...about a week later, she was over it...

ive done the broom method too...but the thing ive noticed with it is you have to continue to do it until they stop....dont just brush her leg with a broom and when she kicks stop for the day...their kicking is their way of saying go away....so if you stop when they kick, they have won....and thats generally why they continue doing it....you have to keep doing it until she stops kicking...it may take an hour, maybe two!  ...but she will eventually stop...and do it every day, even a couple times a day...it should get to the point where the time it takes her to stop kicking gets less and less and eventually they will just stop...

you've mentioned her kicking at the showstick and washing....first is the tip of your showstick too sharp????  sometimes that can cause them to kick...if its not...then just keep working her with the stick until she stops...when she stops kicking, then the "lesson" is over...same for washing...spray her legs with the water hose...keep spraying them until she stops kicking...these things generally just take patience and time...

 

[Show Heifer]

This topic was covered sometime during the winter with many ideas (Some good, some not so good) but all ideas. Do a "search" on kicking heifer and you should find tons of snowy day reading.

 

[VJ]

Physics law says "For every action there is an equal reaction".

 

[kw kid]

I had a heifer I showed a couple years ago that would kick every once in awhile unexpected I would blind fold her a few times when we fit her and used plastic combs but the one time I fit her she brushed me in the face and I got pissed and she was too good to give up on and my sister was working on her so I didn't want her to get kicked in the stalls working on her so I bought a kicker from sullivans never had anymore problems put it on her in the stall to brush legs at home and shows and also fit her with it on may get made fun of but my denist is expensive lol

kicker from SS? I think you are talking about the leather or nylon hobbles?? can you use them on the back legs?  I am in the same boat she is to good to give up on  but if I lose my teeth or the kids get hurt that might be her ticket out.

Thanks

 

[kw kid]

lots of patience and hours of trying to work it out of her...

i've had a couple over the years that were like that...one would kick at "things" so i took about 15 empty 2 liter plastic pop bottles and laid them all throughout her stall, it kinda freaked her out at first, every time she would walk, one would move or get in her "zone" and she would kick...but she eventually got tired and quit....then everytime i would go in to clean out the stall, i would gently toss them close to her back legs with a pitchfork...she would kick at that too, but eventually she would get tired and just quit...everyday she would do it a little less...about a week later, she was over it...

ive done the broom method too...but the thing ive noticed with it is you have to continue to do it until they stop....dont just brush her leg with a broom and when she kicks stop for the day...their kicking is their way of saying go away....so if you stop when they kick, they have won....and thats generally why they continue doing it....you have to keep doing it until she stops kicking...it may take an hour, maybe two!  ...but she will eventually stop...and do it every day, even a couple times a day...it should get to the point where the time it takes her to stop kicking gets less and less and eventually they will just stop...

you've mentioned her kicking at the showstick and washing....first is the tip of your showstick too sharp????  sometimes that can cause them to kick...if its not...then just keep working her with the stick until she stops...when she stops kicking, then the "lesson" is over...same for washing...spray her legs with the water hose...keep spraying them until she stops kicking...these things generally just take patience and time...

your comment got me thinking, she does this when she gets a little worked up or uncomforable, or wants to be back with the other calves in the stall.  To start with i need to work her out of this as well, maybe i gave up to soon?  I messed with her for 20min or so and she just seemed to get more iritated and aggressive.  You are exactly right it is her way of saying go away.  Show stick might have just startled her, washing is more just stay away also.  Now she has us all waiting to get kicked and i think she can sense that.
Thanks

 

[kw kid]

Physics law says "For every action there is an equal reaction".

That was my first reaction, just didnt seem to help her. did make me feel better though.

 

[AAOK]

[/quote]
kicker from SS? I think you are talking about the leather or nylon hobbles?? can you use them on the back legs?  I am in the same boat she is to good to give up on  but if I lose my teeth or the kids get hurt that might be her ticket out
[/quote]

They are probably referring to an aluminum U shaped device which squeezes in at the flank.  You can get the same results with an ordinary piece of nylon rope.  Place under flank, and tie up on both sides.  Too tight will cause the calf to tip due to temporary paralysis in the hind quarter.

 

[knabe]

people just need to think differently.

look at the horse training books by ray hunt or tom dorrance.

separation anxiety just means making where you are going more pleasant in small increments.  don't wait till you see the behavior you don't like to back off.  all that does is reinforce a confrontation and a defense response.

sometimes when i start out with this is to implant a memory.  you know cows can remember stuff really quickly.  try leaving on a memory and make the memory longer and longer.  

right now, the memory is agitation.  it's like being forced in the same room with a person you don't like and they have the remote.

 

[Show Heifer]

Physics law says "For every action there is an equal reaction".

That was my first reaction, just didnt seem to help her. did make me feel better though.

I have been at this probably longer than you have been alive, and I have NEVER seen beating an animal to be effective in making the GENTLE.  I mean, how does that make sense? If you beat on me, I probably won't like you either.

 

[SlickTxMaine]

Our last steer kicked like a devil.  Would aim at you and kick with force.  We held a broom at the very end of the handle, and with my arm stretched out, laid the broom on his hip.  He would kick until he kicked himself silly.  We also sprayed his legs with a water hose.  After just 2-3 days of this, he quit.  I guess he realized he was not getting anywhere, the broom remained and the water did not go away.  To clarify, we did not spray the water and use the broom at the same time, but would alternate.  Good luck, and be careful!

 

[kw kid]

Physics law says "For every action there is an equal reaction".

That was my first reaction, just didnt seem to help her. did make me feel better though.

I have been at this probably longer than you have been alive, and I have NEVER seen beating an animal to be effective in making the GENTLE.   I mean, how does that make sense? If you beat on me, I probably won't like you either.

no argument here.

 

[knabe]

Physics law says "For every action there is an equal reaction".

i think you forgot a word in there.

 

[kw kid]

Thanks for all the ideas.

Saturday:
tied her up first washed in wash rack and blew her out in the chute.  She only tried to kick me once. while washing i got between her and the wall she likes to be against.  I just got her out of her comfort zone, I could see it coming she got a little snotty and was switching hertail I held my ground talked to her calmly scratched her tail head, got  her calmed down and finished.  Left them tied for 4-5 hrs blew them out and combed them in stall.  Let them go she got a little snotty when pulling the halter, but just let her though her fit then let her go.  Bottom line I am going to repeat this over the next week and get her clipped for the show.  (repetition)  If that doesn't work will try the broom or plastic bottles and let her kick it out of her.

Thanks again.

 

[common sense]

I TOTALLY agree with the "for every action there is a similar reaction" comment. VERY true. There is no 100% cure but here is my fix...for what it's worth. I don't disagree with the broom method but the calf can interpret that as aggressive behavior and it's response is to protect itself. It might get tired but it will never look beyond the broom and a threat and may become more cautious at the next encounter. So, use that with much caution. I have had some very good luck with hobbles...the kind that have a strap that buckles around each leg and has about a 12-15 inch length of chain in between them. The calf doesn't feel threatened and actually doesn't link the hobbles to your presence at all. If it chooses to stand calmly and nicely then there are no issues. If it chooses to launch a kick at you it will be stopped short without pain. It may get thrown off balance and jump around for a minute but quickly learns that you are not connected and that if it stands still and doesn't kick then life is good. You MUST use it every time you  are around the calf for several days or a week to reinforce the lesson. In most cases they will learn that launching a kick no longer serves the purpose of protecting them from something they might fear. Be careful though as they may find some new vice to counter act that loss.  Good luck!!!

 

[smithhal1]

Well last year we had a steer that kicked and we did not know what to do. But it did not start until we'd started to dye before shows. It ended up just being the dye we used because it burned his skin. We never ever dyed that steer again with the black velvet, we used a different dye and he was a little kicky.