is she worth 2500?

[TottenClubCalves]

I'm a he guys not a she  and I kinda like this heifer and when comparing the two I like this one better aand can get her for the same price

http://www.showcattlepage.com/jensenshowcattle/images/2007/oct22/137.jpg

 

[shortyisqueen]

I'm a he guys not a she  and I kinda like this heifer and when comparing the two I like this one better aand can get her for the same price

http://www.showcattlepage.com/jensenshowcattle/images/2007/oct22/137.jpg

OOPS!. Very sorry, why did I assume you were a she !!! Huge apologies!!!

You did state you were looking for something that would make a cow later - so I'm just playing the devil's advocate. If you can get EPD's on the dam's side, that would give you a few little indicators anyways.

That second heifer is a NICE looking heifer. Granted, the first one is a little greener and the second picture is a better picture - but that second one looks pretty broody and has no shortage of flank compared to the first one.

Happy shopping!!!

 

[Jill]

Sorry about that, I assumed the same thing.  I've given this some thought and here is what I think.  The 1st and 2nd are both nice, but they have VERY different end points, you need to decide what is important to you, in our area most of our show season is in the spring and you cruise right into Jr. Nationals.  The 1st heifer is very green, she may hold her own, but she isn't going to be the big winner right now, she will do well in the spring and should be perfect by Jr. National time.  The 2nd heifer is broody and beautiful, but she (from the looks in the pics) is already on the fat side and it not nearly as nicely fronted, by late spring will probably be stale, but she will be competive now.
On the cow side of things, you stated that you want this heifer to throw some nice clubbies down the road.  My experience is this, you are looking for the wrong type of show heifer to also throw nice clubbies.  The heifers you are looking at are terminal type heifers, they are really not the type you would want to breed for clubbies.  If you want a heifer that will throw nice clubbies you need to start with a 7 frame heifer so you will be able to breed to the clubbie type bulls. 
There really is no wrong answer here, just decided what is most important to you and go from there.  You have found 2 really nice heifers, have fun.

 

[NHR]

Judging her based on a photo:

She has a good neck extension and the neck comes out of the shoulder at a good angle. Her front shoulder design is hard to see in the photo so i cant really comment there. Body length looks adequate based on the photo. Tailhead comes out kind of high but i cant see her from the rear so i cant judge if this is a real issue. Body depth looks good, she needs to be lower in the flank but feed and hay can help there. Her back legs look good for a show prospect but with a photo we cant see how she walks.

Just my opinion. Its hard to judge cattle from a photo.

 

[OH Breeder]

I'm a he guys not a she  and I kinda like this heifer and when comparing the two I like this one better aand can get her for the same price

http://www.showcattlepage.com/jensenshowcattle/images/2007/oct22/137.jpg

Personally, seeing the other picture and not knowing anything about her, I like the second heifer better. Deeper bodied and looks more cowy to me.  Of course the picture is outstanding.

 

[CAB]

  I must have missed something. Where is the 2nd pic @? I only have 1 pic on this thread. Help me out please. Thanks, Cab

 

[OH Breeder]

see the link in my post or the one quoted

 

[CAB]

  Talked to Jason this morning, If you are going to make a run @ the 137 heifer, your are going to have to go back to the banker. She will bring some serious money. I think that she would make a great show heifer and a cow when she's done. Thanks for helping an old man out on the link OH Breeder

 

[Jill]

How much is she at now?

 

[garybob]

Shortyisqueen, do you seriously ask all of those question when buying a show heifer, she isn't buying the whole cow herd?  From what can be seen in a picture I would say she is worth 2500, she is a little shallow in the flank, but if she is really only 5 months some of that may fill in with time.  The major issue that can't be seen in a picture is can she walk, make sure you determine that before you buy her because if she can't walk she is worth market price.  Don't make determinations on what a full sister brought, look at your family, I know in mine I have 2 full sisters, one is 5'9" the other is 5'3" one has brown hair and brown eyes the other has black hair and green eyes and I by the way am a blue eyed blond, we all have the same genetic make up, but we are all 3 different, cattle work the same way you can't judge her by her sister.  Nice heifer, really cool fronted.

Y'uns probably would never guess this, but, I ask the same type of questions, and many, many, more. Your family analogy is flawed, in my opinion. Apples and Oranges!
If your stated goal is consistency, then, you'd want to see other ''family members'' to get an idea of predictability. Didn't Bakewell say "Like Begets Like"? Didn't Mendel say that "Genes assort at random"? You must keep both these ideas in mind, if you are going to be successful in this business.

These are hardly new concepts.

"Cool Fronted" cattle usually don't weigh as much as "coarse, sloppy made" cattle, at least in the real world, where feed isn't always plentiful. They also usually gain less, when better nutrition( in the form of a feedyard ration,or wheat pasture, just 2 examples) is put in front of them.

If you want freaky-fronted, buy a Guernsey. Your Feed Dealer will show his appreciation by giving you an extra calendar.

Keepin' it real,

GB

 

[Jill]

I am actually very successful in this business and I can tell you with no uncertainty that the genetics she is looking at have NO consistancy, that doesn't make them good or bad just not compareable.  My 20,000 steer had a flush mate that went to the sale barn, full sibs have very little do with one another when you are pricing show cattle.

 

[garybob]

I am actually very successful in this business and I can tell you with no uncertainty that the genetics she is looking at have NO consistancy, that doesn't make them good or bad just not compareable.  My 20,000 steer had a flush mate that went to the sale barn, full sibs have very little do with one another when you are pricing show cattle.

I think we are more '' alike'' than '' different'' on this one.

Smiles,

GB

 

[knabe]

I can tell you with no uncertainty that the genetics she is looking at have NO consistancy.

this is an interesting comment.  what is a good ratio for some that are consistent?, ie 1 calf out of 100.

 

[Jill]

What I'm saying is that both of these heifers are crossbred clubbie genetics.  The 2 heifers she is looking at, just a a wild guess were bred to be steers they were bred to be a terminal cross animal,your going to get some great ones and your going to get some wrecks, that's just how it is. 
I don't know what a good ratio is, but I can tell you it will jump by leaps and bounds if you start looking at purebred programs with consistant breeding stock in mind.  Elbee has a linebreeding program and I would venture to say that his calves are probably as consistant as you will find.

 

[knabe]

i was hoping you would say something like that.  i think it's pretty important. 

i guess i could add, are there any power matrons out there from these terminal genetics?  they seem to be winning the breeding shows too.

 

[TottenClubCalves]

the bid for the 137 heifer is at 2000 right now and thats my bid I can go higher alot actually but I just wanted to know if shes worth it

 

[DLD]

I saw the calves at Jason Jensen's yesterday. The 137 heifer would be cheap anywhere near $2500, but my guess is she might bring 2 to 4 times that. Never know though... I've been wrong before.

 

[kanshow]

I'd say $2500 is right on what she is worth - if she can walk.  There are some things I'd change but that  comes with a price. 

As for questions..  I try to inform myself about a breeder's program and those bloodlines before I even consider buying any cattle that originate from there.  That said, if my management can handle those things, I don't worry about  it.  If the problem is something I won't tolerate then I don't even go there.

I agree with Jill on genetics..      We had 4 flush brothers born this spring..  3 are peas in a pod and the other one is (WAS) as small dumpy chronic bloater.    We thought he was a miss but DNA told us otherwise.   

 

[CAB]

  Hey TottenClubCalves, did you happen to get either of the calves bought that you were hoping to get? You have to let us all know. Thanks, Cab

 

[chambero]

I would like to see the cow a particular calf is out of also.  However, it is often way too easy to "overthink" the process of buying a show calf.

Very few people on the customer side of the house know what they are looking at when they go look at a pasture full of cows on grass that haven't been fed up with calves that haven't been clipped.  Everybody says they want to, but I've seen the opposite too often.  Frankly, lots of legitimate, big-name steer jocks can't pick them like that.  And honestly, its not lack of knowledge always either.  Its just hard to tell sometimes unless you see an animal day in and day out.  I can pick my top dozen or so, but I never really know till I get them on feed and knock some hair off.

Telling someone to analyze every animal in a herd for every little fault is unrealistic.  You can go find some "herds" where everything looks perfect, because they have the ones with imperfections hid out somewhere else of have culled them.  If I was buying a group of heifers, that might be a bigger issue.  But putting that much emphasis for buying a single show heifer is putting too much emphasis on the wrong side of the equation.

We are at around 250 females and we have some with udder issues, some don't walk perfect, and some are toothless grannies.  I guarantee you the best "cow judger" couldn't pick out our best show calf producing cow out of the group.  She don't look like much now that she's nearly 10.  Things sag a little bit in places they shouldn't, she's pretty skinny, etc.