Is the a data base for monkey mouth carriers?

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red

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After talking w/ DL, I'm thinking my red bull calf has slight monkey mouth. I know that someone told me ForePlay cattle have that trait.
Is there a date base or list of possible carriers?
for those of you not fimiliar w/ monkey mouth, notice the lower lip extending slightly. Banned in most shows as a defect.
Red
 

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showsteerdlux

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Well from the looks he should make someone a good project if he does indeed have the trait. This is a stupid question, but what does monkey mouth do?
 

knabe

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http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php/topic,2023.15.html

here's an "unofficial" list compiled by people who reported them on this site
 

red

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good thread Knabe. must have missed it somehow. Here is the "unoffical" list:

sires so far

Ace (Black Perfection 22)
chill factor
cowboy cut
cunia
de bull
final answer
full flush
godfather
habanero
hairy bear
heat seeker
Heat Wave
hide-n-watch
kodiak
lifeline
mojo
mossy oak
powerplant
reflector
silver bullet
stout
throttle
uno
war horse 4 defects?
who made who
whose your daddy
witch doctor
wonder



out of cows sired by
cold front

monkey mouth clean?

Babe (MF Babe Ruth 01B)
 

showsteerdlux

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O wow I had no idea it went to end up being crippled to. So I'm guessing that its along the same gene lines as th and pha except a little different.
Thanks for the link knabe.
 

knabe

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by implication, if it's a single gene, and cunia is the only carrier, this may add , emphasize may


bulls

black gold
LW CHALLENGER
POPLAR HVN RED ALERT 54T
FERRIS RCH STRUTT  (cunia in there twice)
K&A MR IMPRESSIVE Y107
CAVELOCKS SETTLER 80K


and please, god no, fr magic 179x

i'm going to go over the above list as well

this list is getting annoying as it includes midas and others in pedigree.

6 out of 8 ancestors have cunia in them and they are 3-4 deep cunia in each one.  ctr success 02k looks like no cunia, but lots of angus.
 

DL

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Monkey mouth is believed to be a recessive trait with variable penetrance - meaning that you can see widely varied phenotypes - from the calf that looks like a French bulldog without incisors to the calf whose botton jaw is an inch or more longer that the top making it hard for him to eat.

As you might imagine we are starting another gene hunt - at least to develop a bank of samples - so that when there is sufficient info Dr B and Barrel Racer can do their magic thing
so this is what is needed if you have a MM calf -
whole pedigree - this makes the gene search much easier
sample from calf
sample from cow
sample from sire
samples from cows dam, sore etc if available
picture of calf

For many of us with cattle TH and PHA tested the sample is already at Dr Bs and most of the AI bulls as well ....there is also a move a foot to create a national bovine genetic defect group among veterinarians and animal scientists to help obtain samples,  be aware when something could be weird and genetic....etc

for example a recent case of PHA was identified in a totally different breed of cattle in the US - first reported case - a vet student who saw a PHA C-section was on a rotation in a different state where they were doing a C-section for dystocia - the student thought the calf had PHA - the private practice vet and student and breeder sent the calf to Dr Steffen in Nebraska for diagnosis -  how cool is that! that is all I know for now

ps showsteerdelux - you may be confused - this is a jaw defect only - some of the bulls listed carry other defects but many MM calves go on to lead full and productive lives  ;)



 

red

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Jill said:
I've never seen it banned at any of the shows we have been to.

Jill- maybe I'm wrong. for some reason I was thinking the AMMA shows banned.

Red
 

showsteerdlux

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Ok I didnt know if it was something that may go along with the genes of th and pha since so many of those carriers also were id'd on this list.
 

knabe

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can the person who reported silver bullet clarify whether it was

SILVER BULLET 11F ET      230615  which has cunia in him or
LGH SILVER BULLET 841X  140505  which has NO cunia  only one so far with no cunia on the list

kinda suprised no one has reported a irish whiskey calf with MM.  that would be awesome if he was clean.
 

DL

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knabe said:
can the person who reported silver bullet clarify whether it was

SILVER BULLET 11F ET      230615  which has cunia in him or
LGH SILVER BULLET 841X  140505  which has NO cunia  only one so far with no cunia on the list

kinda suprised no one has reported a irish whiskey calf with MM.  that would be awesome if he was clean.

Yeah knabe a dead calf with a nice jaw is always a winner ;)
 

showsteerdlux

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Well like you said you can breed smart. If you breed him to a non carrier you have a 50% chance of a non carrier that is also free of monkey mouth. What could be better? ;D ;D ;D
 

ZNT

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red said:
showsteerdlux said:
Is that the triple x bull?

hate to say this but yes. He'll probably get steered now.  :'(

This is the first case of monkey mouth I have heard of out of Triple X, and actually in the 4 generations of that cow family that Triple X is out of, I have never had a monkey mouth calf.  There is both Power Plant and Cunia starting 5 and 7 generations back in Triple X's pedigree.  Red, since your calf is out of a Foreplay cow, and Foreplay is a Power Plant son, it isn't unthinkable that you could get a monkey mouth.  I don't think it takes any science at all to realize the Power Plant and Cunia are the #1 culprits of spreading monkey mouth through the Maine breed.  As these bloodlines have fallen farther back in the pedigrees, and people have avoided keep heifers with the trait, the occurance is significantly less than we saw back in the late 80's and early 90's

About Hardcore being a carrier of the defect, I can't rule it out, but we have had 2 Hardcore calves out of a known monkey mouth carrier cow -  A Power Plant x Cunia bred cow-SURPRISE, SURPRISE!  However, NEITHER of these calves is Monkey Mouth.

If we are throwing out bulls that could be MM carriers, we got a Hoo Bear steer with it.  Hoo Bear I believe goes back to Cub, so it isn't impossible.
 

Jill

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We had one several years ago out of Future, he was by far the worst one we have had, died within 3 days, so bad he couldn't suck.
 

knabe

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has there ever been one out of twin creek etulason?

cunia is underneath there in powerplant through DE 310

grant daine's told me that he could linebreed POPLAR HVN SMITHBILT 73S "without a wreck", but this doens't include birth weights.

would be interesting if daine's holy smoke had any.  or mr. million.

it would be interesting if in the heterozygous state if this gene contributed to the roundness of rib in cunia and offspring that are "carriers".  now that would be annoying.


nice "path" in future    futue-stout-powerplant-DE310-cunia

any DE310 bulls other than powerplant yield a MM?
 
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