Is using hair dye cheating?

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red

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Yep, Red loves to stir the pot!
Question- is using hair dye cheating? I'm not talking about eliminating the white on a calf but dying brownish hair black.
What's the opinion? Is it OK for shows that don't have it in the rule book as such? Is OK all the time. Is it a complete no no? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Let everyone have their opinion & no name calling or bashing if someone doens't agree w/ you.

For me- as long as the rules don't spell it out I've dyed a brown tinted calf black before. I confess! I've done it & will probably do it again. But I also read the rules first.
Red (clapping)
 

OH Breeder

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If it is a sun burnt calf that is black with red tips or brown tips I see nothing wrong with dying it back black. If you are dying white legs black to conciel them, that to me is NOT right. THen you are altering the color. JMO
 

the angus111

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Cathy, has temptation set in and you just feel like cheating?how about that great angus heifer with that marble size white spot on the neck,real good heifer.there is temptation.rusty swks
 

SKF

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As long as your not changing the original color of the calf. All black calves go through the ugly reddish color so dying them black is not changing their original color. Of course always check the rules first!
 

red

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LOL- No, Rusty- tempation has not set in. I confess I've dyed them black to cover the brown.
I just read a few comments on other boards where it gets quite hotly debated on whether dying is considered cheating!
I have a redish brown calf that is supposed to be black. She had too much white on plces to dye her effectively. Will probably show her as is.

Red
 

garybob

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Just don't understand the bazzoo over color. What's wrong with conformation, functionality, fertility, carcass traits, and, last, but not least, BREED CHARACTER?
 

DL

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oh garybob - you forget it is a beauty contest -conformation, functionality, fertility, carcass traits, and, last, but not least, BREED CHARACTER be darned - - black, hairy, big butted, nonfertile, crippled but ever so pretty females (oh I forgot - fat too!) that is what the judges want and that is what they get ;D ;D ;D
 

kanshow

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Dying hair to enhance color or get it back to the original color is not cheating...    Dying to cover up things is.. BUT I'll have to admit I have a certain envy for those who are good enough to pull it off!!  ;D
 

kanshow

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I know what would happen if I tried to dye a white patch black.  I'd probably end up with most of the black on me and the white patch on the calf would be some odd purplish color.      ;D
 

red

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I'm telling on myself again! I had a heifer that had a huge white patch right on her lower end quarter. Made her look really high in the flank. So while at home, no show to go to, I tried dying it all balck. Talk about a werid color! It was kind of purpleish/bluish/grey! Really yucky looking. Got the ribbing of a lifetime from the nephews. Needless to say, dye was gone before she showed again.

Red
 

afhm

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REd it will work better if you  dye it black several times. It also does much better if you dye the whiite either red or brown 1st then go to black.
 

red

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actually, I was just playing around to see what it looked like. Since that is altering to me, I wouldn't do it for a show. But it's fun to sometimes just play!

Red
 

cowz

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Do any of you more "seasoned" folks on here remember BIG MAC....the steer that won Denver.....??    (Kudos to NWSS for catching cheaters in the Market Show, at least part of the time.)

For you younger steer planet people, Big Mac was a Charolais steer that was dyed black.   Think of how much dye that would take.  The following is a link and article for a true "blast from the past".

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,903329,00.html

Bum Steer or Real Champ?
One evening during the 1972 Stock
Show, Jack Orr was finishing up chores
down in the yards when his son and a
friend came rushing into the pen. “Jeep’s
up there on the Hill!” they blurted
breathlessly. The steer with the funny
nickname had started life on the Skylark
Ranch at Kremmling, Colorado, where
one of the boys had prepared him for a
show and sale in Kansas. He had been a
creamy white Charolais back then, but
now he was jet black and entered as an
Angus in the Junior Show. So began a
melodrama that still evokes smirks and
discomfort. “No story created more
publicity in National Western history,”
wrote former General Manager Willard
Simms, but it’s a story the Stock Show
would sooner forget.
“They took me up there and except for
being black, it sure as heck looked like
Jeep,” Orr recalls. If it was Jeep, this was a
bombshell. Only steers sired by an Angus
bull were eligible to enter the Angus
division and Jeep, if that’s who he was, had
a Charolais poppa and momma. A dye job
could be the only explanation for his
present hue. Soon, the barn talk was all
about the steer and a protest challenging his
right to compete was filed with Stock Show
brass. When the owner tendered
documents showing an Angus sire, the steer
was allowed to stay in the competition. He
conceded to using black dye to touch up a
few light spots but this was a common
practice and not against the rules.
John Grisham might have scripted
what happened next. The Angus judge,
unaware of the hubbub behind the scenes, picked the animal over 86 other
entries as the division champion. Two
days later, a second judge chose him over
Hereford and Shorthorn winners to
become the Junior Show’s grand
champion steer, one of the highest
honors at the Stock Show. “He was a
good animal, no doubt about it,” says
Orr. The award put the critter in the
headlines and when McDonald’s laid
down a record $14,250 at the Junior
Livestock Auction and dubbed him “Big
Mac,” he was a celebrity.
Ordinarily, their appearance at the
auction is the last curtain call for Junior
Show champions, but Big Mac got a
reprieve. Documents had turned up
purporting to prove his Charolais ancestry
and he was sequestered before he could
be slaughtered. Blood samples were
drawn to probe his links to the claimed
Charolais and Angus sires. Branding irons
from the Skylark Ranch were brought in.
A vet had a gander up the champion’s
nostrils for signs that pink membranes
had been dyed black. “As far up as we
could see, he was black,” the vet said.
Investigators flew to Kansas to interview
the owners and 4-H officials. A brand
inspector clipped hair and photographed
brands from other Skylark cattle to
compare with the marks on Big Mac.
Separate labs turned up nary a trace of
Angus blood in Big Mac’s veins. He was,
they said, descended from a proud
Charolais lineage. The brand inspector
concluded “beyond a doubt” that Skylark
irons had branded him. The owner’s
account of the animal’s provenance began
to unravel and the steer started showing
white around his eyes as the hair grew out.
The vet peered up his nostrils again, stood
back with a surprised look and proclaimed,
“He’s just as pink as he can be.”
Then the lid blew off the unfolding
drama. “It hit page one of the Post noon
edition,” Simms would later write, “and
then about every newspaper, TV and
radio station in the country, and the AP
and UPI wire services.” To the
accompaniment of media guffaws, Simms
called in Big Mac’s ribbons and awarded
them to the reserve grand champion.
McDonald’s asked for a refund.
Months passed and the storm
subsided while Big Mac grew out a
creamy white coat in pens of the
Colorado Brand Board, which held him
as an unclaimed stray. He had
contentedly munched his way through
600 pounds of hay and 300 pounds of
cracked corn by August when Iowa
newspaperman Eddie Collins bought
him at auction– but not to turn him
into patties. “Practically everybody in
the United States and a lot of Europe had heard about Big Mac,” laughs Jack
Orr. That fall he checked into
Washington, D.C.’s, Mayflower Hotel to
help stockmen dramatize low cattle
prices. In a Cadillac and horse trailer
Collins and Big Mac toured the country,
appearing at fairs and 4-H clubs to
illustrate what happens when
competition goes too far. The storied
steer, a champion at heart, lived to a
ripe old age and might have said that
things turned out just fine.
Youngsters in the Big Time
With chortles all around, the 1973
Junior Show’s grand champion steer was
nicknamed Honest Mac. And though the
National Western was still smarting, the
embarrassing fraud brought some needed
reforms. First, the Junior Show, which
had lagged in adding new breeds, opened
up to the increasingly popular Charolais
and added a class for “Other Breeds and
Crosses.” Now any steer sired by a
registered bull could be an Honest Mac.
Steps were also taken to thwart so-called
“steer jockeys,” exhibitors who would
bend or break rules in pursuit of the big
money paid for top animals at the Junior
Auction. Jack Orr, a key figure in
exposing Big Mac and later a Chairman of
the Junior Show, says, “We simply tried
to make rule changes to where it’s a good,
honest show and the kids are really
deserving and you’re teaching honesty,
respect and responsibility.”
 

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justme

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Missouri
Now that was an interesting story!

Remind me not to let Red put highlights in my hair if I go to Ohio! lol (lol)
 

DLD

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Nowadays, it's cool to be white (or cream, or smokey) - don't think there's a whole lot of danger of that happening. Seems like even the chromed up ones are pretty popular...

Alot depends on the shows and/or breed associations rules. Unless it's expressly against the rules (ie - no dyeing), I don't see anything wrong with dyeing a black one black. Yes, it does enhance their color, and darken up reddish or brown hair, but done properly it's more about adding body and shine to the hair, and freshening up a calf's overall appearance. To most of the better fitters, it's an essential part of getting one fine tuned. Dye them after they've been clipped and it darkens the areas you've clipped short and helps your whole clip job blend together. Using the right product correctly, it doesn't wipe off or wash out - it just grows out. These are the reasons that most fitters insist on a particular brand and shade, and use so much at a time.

Without dyeing, most of today's winning black cattle (of all breeds) wouldn't look quite as a good as they always have. Kind of like the Angus and Limi breeds ban on black paint or touch up. Sure doesn't seem like alot of those cattle have quite the bone they did before, huh?  

Yes, it is a show - and it's about looks and winning. Yes, there's alot more to it than that, but if you don't want 'em fit, we had just as well do it Texas Longhorn style - turn un-washed, un-clipped cattle loose in the ring and put the judge on horseback. Some folks might like that, and that's fine with me - if you can get enough others that want to do it that way, go for it. I'll stick with halters and fitting, thanks anyway.

David
 

genes

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Speaking of touch up....would anybody out there consider black (or coloured) paints, foams, etc ok, but dyeing not?  Or vice versa?

Personally I think dying over the same colour (ie black on black) is fine as I'd consider that enhancing, just like clipping and all our other grooming.  Dyeing spots (or a whole steer...haha) crosses that fuzzy line into altering in my mind.  But at least it doesn't hurt the animals.....
 

Jill

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We had heard this story while we were in Dever, from what I was told it was Eldon's steer, everytime I get my Livestock Exhibitor I think about that and laugh, you have to admit they proved a point.
 

chambero

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Texas
A big black sharpie works better on those little small white patches.  Not that I've ever done it.

In reality, its pretty hard to successfully dye much of a white patch at all.  99% of the dyeing is just to turn brown hair black.  A little white isn't near as frowned on now as it used to be.

Our rules vary dramatically from show to show.  We can't even paint legs at Fort Worth, our only hair show.  Most of these rules cutting back on fitting were in reality just an excuse to allow more people to have a better chance to "get by" with less time and effort on their calves. 

Cattle shows are really a beauty pageant just like every other kind of exhibition (horse shows, etc).  I'm ok with that for the most part and don't think there is anything wrong with doing things to make their "clothes" look better.  If some want to cross the line and make theirs look ridiculous and fake, that's their problem and the judges responsibility to sort it out.
 
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