LIES!!!

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minimoo38

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ROCKY BALBOA
OUR NEXT CALVING EASE KNOCKOUT!

$20/unit
SIRE: Ali
DAM: Who Made Who
DOB: March 1, 2006
BW: 60 pounds, unassisted, first calf heifer
BRED BY: Bob Hine
TH Free • PHA Free

Rocky Balboa is a calving ease alternative to Ali that offers a hair coat similar to that of a Scotch Highlander. He calved unassisted out of a first calf heifer and had a birthweight of 60 pounds. For those looking for another calving ease option, Rocky is at the top of many breeder's lists. With a perfect blend of Ali's calving ease and Who Made Who's maternal power, it's a no-brainer to make Rocky part of your breeding plans this year!

is anyone else having troubles with him? my uncle just pulled a 120 lb. calf. everyone else around us has been having troubles with him of at least double his claimed birthweight. one our friends has a cow that hip locked and died. out vet said that he is having so much trouble with them this year.

the problem is that the calves are all nice and slender until you get to the hips. they are huge!! we have a couple cows that are bred to him, and now we are worried.
 

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CPL

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I guess those are just the chances of using an unproven bull and taking someone else's advice. I hope your cows calve out fine.
 

TJ

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I don't know that it is necessarily a lie.  I agree with CPL... it sounds more like someone made the mistake of hyping some unproven genetics!  Anytime a bull is unproven, it is a caveat emptor... let the buyer beware.   

Sorry to hear about your calving trouble & I hope that your calving starts turning out for the better.  Nothing worse than assisting a bunch of calves, particuarly when they are hard pulls or even worse, c-sections! 
 

red

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it's a throw of the dice sometimes. As both TJ & CPL said, it's not necessarirly lies. They are going by EPD's, previous BW's of sire & dam & the bull's own birthweight. You can still have big calves out of Ali & the other calving ease bulls. Also the cow is 50% of the factor! My big red cow has only once thrown a calf under 100 pounds & it was 99. Her offspring however have been pretty consistant w/ birth's way under 95.

Red
 

AAOK

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Another plus to the traditional large framed, wide hipped Maine-Anjou cows.  If a 100+ calf comes along, they can just silp it right out! 

Can you tell I'm not a fan of these 5 & 6 frame cows?
 

DL

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This is exactly the reason I NEVER use yearling bulls on heifers - they can say anything they want in the ad, maybe he really did have a 60 pound BW, maybe his 95 pound twin died at birth, maybe he was born 3 weeks early, maybe maybe maybe...it is all hype to get you to buy semen. Nothing is guaranteed in biology but believing the hype associated with unproven bulls being promoted is almost alway going to get you into trouble.

The difference between hype and lies is what ends up happening in the end ;)

I'll let someone else test the bull on heifers for the promoters. It won't be me. I've told this story before - was looking for  a red maternal Maine bull - found a Canadian bull promoted as calving ease - being skeptical I used him only on cows and the average birth weight was 125! Yes I know that my cows are big but calves that outweigh me by that much are not acceptable. The next year there was no mention of calving ease and his BW EPDs were 2 stars (out of 10) -

Take it as a lesson - use proven bulls on your heifers next year - if you have exact breeding dates then maybe talk to your vet about inducing them. Many of the big butted "steer makers" have big butts which means big hips. And if you insist on using the big butted ones pelvic measure your heifers

Yeah AAOK I like the large framed wide hipped Maines - but I prefer my heifers have 60 to 70 lb calves not 95!
 

SKF

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Remember birthweight is not totally from the bull. I have a cow that every year she has a large calf no matter who she is breed to.
 

CPL

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AAOK said:
Another plus to the traditional large framed, wide hipped Maine-Anjou cows.  If a 100+ calf comes along, they can just silp it right out! 

Can you tell I'm not a fan of these 5 & 6 frame cows?

Traditional? What about the traditionals  in the 40's and 50's that were below the knees? Personally, I think the Frame Race caused breeders to put very important functional traits on the back burner. Furthermore, I think for many folks, including me, the resources are just not there to feed a frame 7, 8 + +  cow. BUT that is a different topic all in itself!  ;)
 

TJ

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DL said:
This is exactly the reason I NEVER use yearling bulls on heifers - they can say anything they want in the ad, maybe he really did have a 60 pound BW, maybe his 95 pound twin died at birth, maybe he was born 3 weeks early, maybe maybe maybe...it is all hype to get you to buy semen. Nothing is guaranteed in biology but believing the hype associated with unproven bulls being promoted is almost alway going to get you into trouble.

The difference between hype and lies is what ends up happening in the end ;)

I'll let someone else test the bull on heifers for the promoters. It won't be me. I've told this story before - was looking for  a red maternal Maine bull - found a Canadian bull promoted as calving ease - being skeptical I used him only on cows and the average birth weight was 125! Yes I know that my cows are big but calves that outweigh me by that much are not acceptable. The next year there was no mention of calving ease and his BW EPDs were 2 stars (out of 10) -

Take it as a lesson - use proven bulls on your heifers next year - if you have exact breeding dates then maybe talk to your vet about inducing them. Many of the big butted "steer makers" have big butts which means big hips. And if you insist on using the big butted ones pelvic measure your heifers

Yeah AAOK I like the large framed wide hipped Maines - but I prefer my heifers have 60 to 70 lb calves not 95!

Really good post, DL!  I agree 100%! 

BTW, I see nothing wrong with 90 & 100 lb. calves, unless they are coming out of 1st calf heifers! 
 

TJ

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CPL said:
AAOK said:
Another plus to the traditional large framed, wide hipped Maine-Anjou cows.  If a 100+ calf comes along, they can just silp it right out! 

Can you tell I'm not a fan of these 5 & 6 frame cows?

Traditional? What about the traditionals  in the 40's and 50's that were below the knees? Personally, I think the Frame Race caused breeders to put very important functional traits on the back burner. Furthermore, I think for many folks, including me, the resources are just not there to feed a frame 7, 8 + +  cow. BUT that is a different topic all in itself!  ;)

I had a ChiXAngus show cow that weighed around a ton & that wasn't in show shape!!  Talk about putting away the groceries!!  ;)  Unless you own a feed mill, a hobby herd or unless you have a real good job, a big cow just isn't very economical to have around. 
 

afhm

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Rocky is double bred calving ease, and was out of a heifer himself.  Somethimes things click just right (or in this case just wrong) and out comes a monster.  I have friends that have had 100-165# Ali calves, luckily none of mine have been over 65#.
 

Telos

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I think there is a psychological aspect to using unproven bulls. We might want to believe they are the "Saint Bull that came down from Bovine Heaven", because we may feel there is no other 'close to perfect' bulls out there.

In the quest for stouter type cattle there is always a risk with calving problems. Good beef cattle should grow to be stout and not born stout IMO.

I don't know if Lautner promoted him as a calving ease bull or just a bull with a 60lb. birthweight. Big difference.
 

minimoo38

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SKF said:
Remember birthweight is not totally from the bull. I have a cow that every year she has a large calf no matter who she is breed to.

my concern is that this BW problem is spread out over 5 different herds and 12 different cows. most of these cows have been bred to 80+ BW' bulls before, and have calved at 70-80 lbs.  we aren't worried about our one cow, that calf if going to fall out if she gets up too fast. :D   it's my 3 yr. old show heifer. she has a very small vulva, and we're hoping to get her through without a c section. i just hate this waiting game.  :-\

telos- he promoted him as both. the quote in my first post is directly from his website
 

Telos

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Jill said:
See quote above, I would call that a calving ease promotion.

Sorry Jill, did not not read everything.

Well, it about selling semen. Lautner is the master of semen sales. He was extremely successful with Ali, but may have missed the boat on Rocky Balboa. Lautner might have to go back and proof read his catalog.
 

DL

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Telos said:
I think there is a psychological aspect to using unproven bulls. We might want to believe they are the "Saint Bull that came down from Bovine Heaven", because we may feel there is no other 'close to perfect' bulls out there.

In the quest for stouter type cattle there is always a risk with calving problems. Good beef cattle should grow to be stout and not born stout IMO.

I don't know if Lautner promoted him as a calving ease bull or just a bull with a 60lb. birthweight. Big difference.

telos - "the Saint Bull from Bovine heaven" - GOOD ONE! perhaps you have a second career in marketing big butted hairy bulls?? ;)

minimoo - I guess I would be concerned too - just because it is my nature  ;) the vulva should stretch as things get looser near calving - it is really her pelvic area that would be of concern - you might want to run your concerns by your vet - if you know she is bred AI inducing her early might be a very viable option.

that is basically why I pick the sires I use very carefully and consider not only the bull but the people promoting the bull - good luck
 

OH Breeder

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I learned the hard way as well, by complete accident. We used Kadabara on a heifer when we mixed up straws. The heifer had a 100# birthweight and something click. The calf was 150#'s plus and we attempted a C Section. It was a bad scene. From that point forward, I will never use an unproven calving ease sire. Even then I know you still can run the risk of problems. I figure you should try to minimize the risk as much as possible so the first go around why not use what works and then use what works in your herd.
 

Show Heifer

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Hey jill...have you called Lautner and discussed your concerns? That might be a place to start.
People make fun of me for not trying those "next great thing since sliced bread" bulls that you just "can't progress your herd without", but I also rarely have surprises. But then again...I have a habit of talking to the breeder of the bulls I use too!!
Hope your other calves come ok!

 

Show Heifer

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Can you say calving season lack of sleep?? :p
Sorry jill.....I meant minnimoo. If you did contact Lautner, what did he say?
 
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