NAILE Open Shorthorn Show - a couple interesting facts.

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GM

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Nov 21, 2009
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oakview said:
If everyone drove in the middle of the road, did the same thing, change would be nearly impossible or at least extremely slow.  When we were just starting with Shorthorns, nearly 50 years ago, how many people laughed and pointed their fingers at Lewis Thieman, Bert Hanson, or Frank Haumont because they were driving in the ditch.  All three had their day, didn't they.  Our breed is better for it, too.  As I've said before, if you don't like Trump, then don't use him.  If you don't like Captain Obvious, then don't use him.  If you don't like Columbus, then don't use him.  Just remember, though, the breed, any breed for that matter, greatly needs diversity in the cattle and their breeders.  What goes around comes around and it's an absolute necessity to have options available when we need them.

Funny you mention Frank Haumont.  I visited Mary Bell Cooksley at Haumont Farms this summer and was completely humbled by the experience.  Mary Bell is an amazing person.  She's in her 90's and she drove up on a swather while I was waiting in front of her house.  Her cattle don't have appendix or irish in their pedigree.  I saw a field of yearling heifers that looked outstanding and they were doing it on grass.  Her bulls looked great, but maybe had some frame on them. I was nearly speechless as I tried to absorb everything I heard and saw.  She said she could advertise more, but doesn't like having to turn people away when she's out of stock.  I think it could be one of the best kept secrets in the breed.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Well-we had a 1200 pound 5.5 (maybe) low BW  April  Shorthorn hiefer at Louisville that made alot of friends walking back wet from the washrack-and got totally dumped as usual-in the ring, There were 1600 pound Aprils(?) which are really bigger than alot of bulls. It seems like a north-south deal to me-the only show cattle that also work for a living are in Texas,Oklahoma, and to some extent Kansas, everything else looks kinda like giraffes from the mayan calender to me. O0
 

KSanburg

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Well I am glad to see that the Hereford breed is not the only breed that has issues within the breed. The whole black thing is as much hype as it is the path. In 1980's or before the Angus breeders made a game plan and have executed it pretty much flawlessly, what they didn't figure on was all the people jumping on the band wagon and turning their red and whites - BLACK. Now what I see is a whole lot of black cattle being represented as Angus or at least 50% and they are not quality cattle, and the feeders and packers have caught on to this.

While I love my Hereford cattle what happens in the showring really has zero effect on how and what I breed, however I do appreciate the cattle that are in the showring. I have participated in Denver and while I didn't bring a banner home I had fun and promoted my cattle and my ranch. I breed my cattle to look the way I want them to look and preform, I like EPD's but don't like the fact that so much emphasis is put on them. When did evaluating the animal for what they are become old fashioned? I find a few of the things discussed in this thread very interesting for instance breeding for hair, heck yeah I want hair, is it a genetic flaw or defect - NO. I like bigger cattle frame 4's and 5's are on the small side for me, but part of what dictates that is the environment that my cattle have to survive in. I guarantee you that the Canadian shorthorns are bigger than the American counterparts and it all has to do with environment.

My kids enjoy showing steers and while I raise Herefords I realize that they cannot compete against the clubby bred steers, so I have become a student of the clubby breeding and I am trying to learn as much as I can about how animals are bred and what might work well on my Hereford cows, last year all I bred was older cows because of birth weight, this year I bred my replacement heifers to Capiche and Jake's Proud Jazz and I am really excited about what I am going to get. So I am cross breeding and the cattle are useful, and the buyers that have seen them tell me they wish that I had several pot loads of them because they will feed and finish a high quality carcuss. They could careless about the color and more about the quality! Will I continue to do some cross breeding, you bet, I like the results that I have had. Will that consist of some Short Horn, probably. If the bulls that I used this year turn out to be as good as I hope then I will continue to use them and a few other bulls as well. In the end high quality cattle will always be useful regardless of their color, is the showring effecting what the commercial cattlemen use? NO But I bet most of them enjoy looking at the showring, if for nothing else it is entertaining.
 

Doc

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Mtnman said:
Well I am glad to see that the Hereford breed is not the only breed that has issues within the breed. The whole black thing is as much hype as it is the path. In 1980's or before the Angus breeders made a game plan and have executed it pretty much flawlessly, what they didn't figure on was all the people jumping on the band wagon and turning their red and whites - BLACK. Now what I see is a whole lot of black cattle being represented as Angus or at least 50% and they are not quality cattle, and the feeders and packers have caught on to this.

While I love my Hereford cattle what happens in the showring really has zero effect on how and what I breed, however I do appreciate the cattle that are in the showring. I have participated in Denver and while I didn't bring a banner home I had fun and promoted my cattle and my ranch. I breed my cattle to look the way I want them to look and preform, I like EPD's but don't like the fact that so much emphasis is put on them. When did evaluating the animal for what they are become old fashioned? I find a few of the things discussed in this thread very interesting for instance breeding for hair, heck yeah I want hair, is it a genetic flaw or defect - NO. I like bigger cattle frame 4's and 5's are on the small side for me, but part of what dictates that is the environment that my cattle have to survive in. I guarantee you that the Canadian shorthorns are bigger than the American counterparts and it all has to do with environment.

My kids enjoy showing steers and while I raise Herefords I realize that they cannot compete against the clubby bred steers, so I have become a student of the clubby breeding and I am trying to learn as much as I can about how animals are bred and what might work well on my Hereford cows, last year all I bred was older cows because of birth weight, this year I bred my replacement heifers to Capiche and Jake's Proud Jazz and I am really excited about what I am going to get. So I am cross breeding and the cattle are useful, and the buyers that have seen them tell me they wish that I had several pot loads of them because they will feed and finish a high quality carcuss. They could careless about the color and more about the quality! Will I continue to do some cross breeding, you bet, I like the results that I have had. Will that consist of some Short Horn, probably. If the bulls that I used this year turn out to be as good as I hope then I will continue to use them and a few other bulls as well. In the end high quality cattle will always be useful regardless of their color, is the showring effecting what the commercial cattlemen use? NO But I bet most of them enjoy looking at the showring, if for nothing else it is entertaining.

Good post. Thanks for giving the Shorties a try & keep us posted on how they turn out for you.
 

mark tenenbaum

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I agree-if you can keep some of those Shorthorn Hereford x hiefers and breed them to the right black bull-and there are alot of CE deals -you would have some pretty desirable merchandise. Actually-I think you will with the first cross. O0
 
J

JTM

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mark tenenbaum said:
I agree-if you can keep some of those Shorthorn Hereford x hiefers and breed them to the right black bull-and there are alot of CE deals -you would have some pretty desirable merchandise. Actually-I think you will with the first cross. O0
Agree with Mark. It would be interesting to see a program that had Shorthorn x Hereford females and then bred them to an Angus bull. That would be very interesting.
 

KSanburg

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I plan to use Angus and some clubby bulls, and even back to Hereford. I will post a picture of a couple of the One and Only calves that we had this year, I am very excited about and may end up with them in Denver with my kids just for fun. But I believe that the Short Horn and Angus F1's will make a great base cow to do anything with. I will continue to breed seed stock Herefords as I have a good customer base for them and I could not abandoned those folks that have been buying my genetics for the last 20 years and from my father and grand father before that.

I am looking forward to working with some Short Horn bloodlines and believe that they can help me in this new branch of my cattle business. One of my oldest customers stopped by the other day and looked at calves, he was very interested in seeing the shorttie cross calves when they hit the ground. He is 95 years old and used a lot of Short Horn 40 years ago, they just became to hard to find in our immediate area so he quit buying them.
 

Will

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According to my grandfather the best cows he ever owned was a set of red baldy shorthorn hereford crosses.  He swears some of those cows were in their twenties and still raising calves. He talks about in the late 70's and early 80's breeding them cows to some of the new exotic bulls and having calves almost out weigh their mothers at weaning.  I have asked him several times why we did not keep those kind and his answer is always the same "we got to smart".
 

OH Breeder

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Will said:
According to my grandfather the best cows he ever owned was a set of red baldy shorthorn hereford crosses.  He swears some of those cows were in their twenties and still raising calves. He talks about in the late 70's and early 80's breeding them cows to some of the new exotic bulls and having calves almost out weigh their mothers at weaning.   I have asked him several times why we did not keep those kind and his answer is always the same "we got to smart".

Shortyisqueen from Canada has found out your secret. Check out the quality in her herd.

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=34101.msg304457#msg304457
http://www.luckyspringsfarms.com/
 

KSanburg

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OH Breeder said:
Will said:
According to my grandfather the best cows he ever owned was a set of red baldy shorthorn hereford crosses.  He swears some of those cows were in their twenties and still raising calves. He talks about in the late 70's and early 80's breeding them cows to some of the new exotic bulls and having calves almost out weigh their mothers at weaning.   I have asked him several times why we did not keep those kind and his answer is always the same "we got to smart".

Shortyisqueen from Canada has found out your secret. Check out the quality in her herd.

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=34101.msg304457#msg304457
http://www.luckyspringsfarms.com/

Thanks for the link, looks like the LSF crew has some nice cattle. I will put them on my stop list for the next time I go to Canada and visit.
 
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