OK Planeteers.....Time 2 USE Your Brain AGAIN.........
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forcheyhawk
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Throttle said:
With the emergence of RFD, I really thought that was going to be the medium to show a few cattle shows. I'm not quite sure why they haven't done that. I've looked through their lineup and it would definitely be an enhancement. Hopefully it has something to do with cost and not that they haven't thought of it. Otherwise they need to hire me to think of these things. <beer>
Big Red Barn
Member
The problem I see is animal welfare groups seeing us using animals as a billboard. It relates to the airing thread, what is the real purpose of it, and how do you make it sound even slightly okay?
My own opinion is to spend more time at the farms showing how these animals are cared for on a daily basis, show calving barns in the midst of calving and the care that occurs during these times. Let people know that these animals are offered shelter in the winter and shade in the summer, fresh water, etc. Yes it sounds "like preaching to the choir" but most people don't know how the animals are raised, so give them the opportunity to learn. Give high school ag groups tools like videos to give presentations to others. Peer education can be a pretty powerful tool.
My own opinion is to spend more time at the farms showing how these animals are cared for on a daily basis, show calving barns in the midst of calving and the care that occurs during these times. Let people know that these animals are offered shelter in the winter and shade in the summer, fresh water, etc. Yes it sounds "like preaching to the choir" but most people don't know how the animals are raised, so give them the opportunity to learn. Give high school ag groups tools like videos to give presentations to others. Peer education can be a pretty powerful tool.
jbh
Well-known member
DL said:
Sorry DL.....I was afraid from your first post that you took that wrong......I wasn't TELLING YOU TO USE YOUR BRAIN......I was PLEADING WITH THE PEOPLE to BRAINSTORM in a POSITIVE manner to come up with as MANY DIFFERENT IDEAS as we could to REFUEL the INTEREST in OUR INDUSTRY, and maybe give me some CREATIVE GUNPOWDER for a future project....MY FAULT!.. (thumbsup)
It really worked out JUST FINE....'cause PEOPLE are alot more willing to talk after their feathers get ruffled anyway.
"This might be a little TOO DEEP for some of you".....was directed at those who JUST WANT TO SHOW CATTLE and not be bothered with anything else, which is FINE.....much like me the past 25 years,.....not saying they're shallow minded......just that they don't have or want to dedicate time in this direction. To each their own....
You were just "DIGGIN' ME" with the WRONG SHOVEL! (lol)
I feel this is our problem as an industry, we can't be allowed to think out of the box without people being overly critical.
Guys, facts are great and research data is also effective to prove our facts. But we have to come to realize these groups (HSUS and PETA) do not work based on facts and they are not interested in fact at all. All of their propaganda is emotional based, with little or no facts to back it.
I personally think Brads idea is a little "out there", but lets think about what kids enjoy and what the general public relates too. I think this idea with a few tweeks would work perfectly. Are all the kids going to like it,NO, and are all show management committees going to let it take place at there show, NO, but with a good amount of participation at some of the bigger prospect shows and Brad helping with the production of the videos I think it could do wonders.
As far as the circus comment, The general public will relate to this very well. Lets think about our society and what we see in the media, most of it would be what you call a "circus". Unfortunately, our public isnt interested in the sob stories of poor ol' farmers (don't take this the wrong way, I was truely touched by the piece Brad did on Mr. Campbell, but as whole our society is not concerned about there neighbor, all they want to know is how something is going to benefit them) we have to figure out a way to reach them, and I feel this way will be as effective as any of the other ideas I have heard in recent years.
Guys, facts are great and research data is also effective to prove our facts. But we have to come to realize these groups (HSUS and PETA) do not work based on facts and they are not interested in fact at all. All of their propaganda is emotional based, with little or no facts to back it.
I personally think Brads idea is a little "out there", but lets think about what kids enjoy and what the general public relates too. I think this idea with a few tweeks would work perfectly. Are all the kids going to like it,NO, and are all show management committees going to let it take place at there show, NO, but with a good amount of participation at some of the bigger prospect shows and Brad helping with the production of the videos I think it could do wonders.
As far as the circus comment, The general public will relate to this very well. Lets think about our society and what we see in the media, most of it would be what you call a "circus". Unfortunately, our public isnt interested in the sob stories of poor ol' farmers (don't take this the wrong way, I was truely touched by the piece Brad did on Mr. Campbell, but as whole our society is not concerned about there neighbor, all they want to know is how something is going to benefit them) we have to figure out a way to reach them, and I feel this way will be as effective as any of the other ideas I have heard in recent years.
forcheyhawk
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You are correct that you won't change the mind of the left wing political groups. However, you might be able to reach out to someone that's on the verge of believing some of the crap they spoo and give them another path. These groups are so very vocal and have deep pockets that you almost have to be on the offensive rather than the defensive to squash some of their thoughts. I've just never had a good handle on what's the offensive. It sounds like Brad does to me.
Think about this - when you see a dog show on TV - you know that most of those dogs are treated like Royalty or at least that's the image that you have. Then when someone like Michael Vick comes along, you realize that it's just an isolated incident. Our industry has all the negative reports - but where's the positive coming from and what better way to get the positive out there than in our youth. They are the future of our industry.
Think about this - when you see a dog show on TV - you know that most of those dogs are treated like Royalty or at least that's the image that you have. Then when someone like Michael Vick comes along, you realize that it's just an isolated incident. Our industry has all the negative reports - but where's the positive coming from and what better way to get the positive out there than in our youth. They are the future of our industry.
Throttle
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forcheyhawk said:
The Vick thing is an excellent analogy to use with mainstream folks when trying to explain why NOT to support the extreme animal rights groups. A lot of ppl have dogs, but not many of them do the things to them that Vick did, so would the average dog owner like to lose their right to own and care for their dog because of the Michael Vick incident? That is exactly what they would love to do to animal ag...maybe we are getting off track from the original thread, this would go better in a new one, but you could be inviting the enemy to the discussion through a simple google search, and you better really have your head on straight if you go there
aj
Well-known member
I hope to goodness that the showring is not linked to production agriculture.
jbh
Well-known member
GRIZZ said:
I agree and appreciate this post.....
I think the smoke is clearing and the picture is becoming LESS CONFUSING. YOU are exactly RIGHT in EVERYTHING you said. I put the idea "WAY OUT THERE" on purpose, and YES, it DEFINITELY NEEDS TWEEKED.....BUT, the part that we cannot forget is that it MUST COMBINE into something that will have MASS APPEAL to the general public.
I DON'T THINK this idea is for EVERY show.....ONLY the bigger ones that want to dedicate time to it OR maybe even a show designed SPECIFICALLY FOR IT, as was mentioned in an earlier post. I think there were MANY OTHER ideas brought up that SERIOUSLY need considered, and I AM GREATFUL to EVERYONE for donating to this topic.
Some of you are still thinking..."I STILL DON'T GET IT...." so let me conclude by saying this......In the ENTIRE REAL WORLD there is going to be only a few select individuals that choose to fight against US.......there are MANY, MANY, MANY MORE....that as was stated above....really just want to know what's in it for them....these are our TRUE consumers! If we can SPIN our product and way of life in a MANNER that is ENTERTAINING and APPEALING to those MASSES......we WIN and WIN BIG!
As the old saying goes....."the BIGGER the wheel, the SLOWER they turn" will strongly be applied to this future campaign project for me, BUT, now the SEED has been planted for US to start GROWING and CULTIVATING.....
Thanks to ALL, and please keep me in the loop if something emerges from this thread.
bruiser
Well-known member
Hey Brad, not rain on your great brainstorming session because I'heard some super ideas here. How about this: somehow incorperating this into a FFA or 4H show with emphasis on records, management, animal perrformance and with comunity service as an additional catagory. Instead of who has the best hair and clipping skills. That way you encourage the skills neccesary to excel in production AND showring skills.
cookcattleco
Well-known member
Why not try and get the major shows IE Denver Fort Worth Kansas City Louisvlle all on tv like the dog shows. I dont know how much it would cost but I think this would make things even more intersted.
There are multiple grass roots efforts emerging from various segments of agriculture - it appears that we ans a group have generically woken up to the threat that is HSUS and PETA
We cannot convince people who believe in the elimination of all domestic animals that we in agriculture are good people and that we care about the animals we raise for food BUT that is ok because they are not the target, the target are the misinformed non ag people - the message we need to get out is that we care about the animals we raise for food - people don't want to know the specifics, they want to know we care - sometimes this is one person at a time - sometimes more, farm tours, Expos, facebook, etc - I am more in agreement with bruiser - showing cattle may make for some great kids, but showing cattle is not representative of the entire scope of what we do
We cannot convince people who believe in the elimination of all domestic animals that we in agriculture are good people and that we care about the animals we raise for food BUT that is ok because they are not the target, the target are the misinformed non ag people - the message we need to get out is that we care about the animals we raise for food - people don't want to know the specifics, they want to know we care - sometimes this is one person at a time - sometimes more, farm tours, Expos, facebook, etc - I am more in agreement with bruiser - showing cattle may make for some great kids, but showing cattle is not representative of the entire scope of what we do
redwingfarm
Well-known member
I have a couple of ideas that could work,
When calves are checked in prior to the show do an ultrasound on the ribeye, very quick ultrasound test with a 2"x2" square area clipped down wouldn't interfere with the hair artists out there, then post the results on the exhibitor back tag similar to how some shows post the animal's weight. Then let the judge use the data as they wish, I hear some complaints already- how can we let something as "insignificant " as ribeye and backfat data-which is ultimately what fat cattle are paid on, have any impact on the show ring?? Wouldn't the kids learn more from which calf was fed and finished the best instead of which calf had the best and most expensive hair do, or the "right" ear tag??
My second idea dovetails with an earlier idea to separe the calves by price paid, unfortunately i fear that everybody being able to correctly remember what they paid for a calf might end up like some people being able to correctly remember when their calf was born or "found". so here goes: have "claiming" values on the calves. If you set up a show to let the people with lower priced calves show in classes separate from the high dollar calves then the exhibitor should be required to put a claiming value on the calf-whereby anyone could claim and buy that calf after the show at the price listed. Oh I know "this will never work in cattle" but it does work in horse racing. Having claiming values would make it unlikely that on of the "bigs" would try to "go down a class" just get a prize when their calf would be on the line.
When calves are checked in prior to the show do an ultrasound on the ribeye, very quick ultrasound test with a 2"x2" square area clipped down wouldn't interfere with the hair artists out there, then post the results on the exhibitor back tag similar to how some shows post the animal's weight. Then let the judge use the data as they wish, I hear some complaints already- how can we let something as "insignificant " as ribeye and backfat data-which is ultimately what fat cattle are paid on, have any impact on the show ring?? Wouldn't the kids learn more from which calf was fed and finished the best instead of which calf had the best and most expensive hair do, or the "right" ear tag??
My second idea dovetails with an earlier idea to separe the calves by price paid, unfortunately i fear that everybody being able to correctly remember what they paid for a calf might end up like some people being able to correctly remember when their calf was born or "found". so here goes: have "claiming" values on the calves. If you set up a show to let the people with lower priced calves show in classes separate from the high dollar calves then the exhibitor should be required to put a claiming value on the calf-whereby anyone could claim and buy that calf after the show at the price listed. Oh I know "this will never work in cattle" but it does work in horse racing. Having claiming values would make it unlikely that on of the "bigs" would try to "go down a class" just get a prize when their calf would be on the line.
thegoodones
Active member
I think the best way to the consumers table and to influence public opinion is to reach the woman. I would like to see them reached, I mean really reached like they do with the Olympics, huge female viewership. How do they do it, human interest stories. Use the great stories of our youth and their skill, deditcation and optimistic outlook to tell our story. Sell our product. If we can get them emotionally hooked they will then listen and our youth are very easy to believe in once we are emotionally connected with them.
simtal
Well-known member
I'm with DL on this one. I think that focusing on informing kids about actual science based stuff (nutrition, genetics, reproduction, etc..) is better approach than concentrating on things like fitting or asthetic stuff. I understand that challenges, not everyone wants to sit in class room and be lectured to. The hardest part of this stuff is how do you teach kids anything at a jackpot/feeder calf show? You can have carcass shows for fat cattle but I'm not sure how you make it work with beef expo type cattle.
Here's another idea.
The only incentive currently to raise clubby stuff is that what wins shows-all based on phenotype. To change that, you set crtieria at a national show (KC, NAILE, Houston, etc) that all steers must be atleast yg 2, modest marbling, no discounts on carcass weight, to win ( or something like that). Or substantiallly reward the steers who fit the grid alot more than those who didn't meet criteria (say 50k vs market price). Get some packer sponsorship for this. I think they would work with you.
Another thought.
Some might preceive this as being pig-headed, however this is my opinion. When I was young, no one felt sorry for me that I didn't have the money or the political connections if I didn't win. I think adversity either breaks you or makes you. I learned more from losing than winning.
Here's another idea.
The only incentive currently to raise clubby stuff is that what wins shows-all based on phenotype. To change that, you set crtieria at a national show (KC, NAILE, Houston, etc) that all steers must be atleast yg 2, modest marbling, no discounts on carcass weight, to win ( or something like that). Or substantiallly reward the steers who fit the grid alot more than those who didn't meet criteria (say 50k vs market price). Get some packer sponsorship for this. I think they would work with you.
Another thought.
Some might preceive this as being pig-headed, however this is my opinion. When I was young, no one felt sorry for me that I didn't have the money or the political connections if I didn't win. I think adversity either breaks you or makes you. I learned more from losing than winning.
Show Heifer
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Still not sure what this whole thread is about. Except that someone has finally caught on or accepted the fact that animal rights activist are doing a much better job at "educating the public" than we are about our own industry.
I have heard it said many times over on this very board that showing cattle is insignificant when it comes to beef production, what the show ring does has nothing to do with the real cattle being produced, and that whatever happens in the show world is irrelevant when it comes to food production (yes, you can all read into that the illegal use of not only illegal drugs, but also misuse of prescription drugs).
Now all of a sudden someone is saying that the show ring world can influence the COUNTRY? Heck, they can't even convince the non showing cattle world that the show ring is nothing but a rich mans game of who you know and who ya ____. You think someone outside the ag world is going to connect if you can not connect with the commercial cattleman that lives in the next county?
With that being said, women buy the groceries in 90% of the households. Yes, you need to ALWAYS include them in the picture. They like human interest stories, which is why the Iowa Farm Bureau have ran TV ads with real farm families telling people about what they do. They have that connected to a website that people can go to and get more information.
Instead of trying to come up with another game to play, another competition for cheaters to ruin, why not clean up what is already out there? Go on the offensive when someone is caught cheating. Make them an example. Release stories about kids that are showing because THEY enjoy it, and it is not their parents reliving a past dream. Invite the media to a cattle barn where calves are being worked with.
Instead of being the government and spending more time, effort and money on something, why not just enforce the rules we have and make the image of showing cattle a positve and not the laughing scap goat it has become after most major shows when the carcasses are condemned?
I have heard it said many times over on this very board that showing cattle is insignificant when it comes to beef production, what the show ring does has nothing to do with the real cattle being produced, and that whatever happens in the show world is irrelevant when it comes to food production (yes, you can all read into that the illegal use of not only illegal drugs, but also misuse of prescription drugs).
Now all of a sudden someone is saying that the show ring world can influence the COUNTRY? Heck, they can't even convince the non showing cattle world that the show ring is nothing but a rich mans game of who you know and who ya ____. You think someone outside the ag world is going to connect if you can not connect with the commercial cattleman that lives in the next county?
With that being said, women buy the groceries in 90% of the households. Yes, you need to ALWAYS include them in the picture. They like human interest stories, which is why the Iowa Farm Bureau have ran TV ads with real farm families telling people about what they do. They have that connected to a website that people can go to and get more information.
Instead of trying to come up with another game to play, another competition for cheaters to ruin, why not clean up what is already out there? Go on the offensive when someone is caught cheating. Make them an example. Release stories about kids that are showing because THEY enjoy it, and it is not their parents reliving a past dream. Invite the media to a cattle barn where calves are being worked with.
Instead of being the government and spending more time, effort and money on something, why not just enforce the rules we have and make the image of showing cattle a positve and not the laughing scap goat it has become after most major shows when the carcasses are condemned?
ROAD WARRIOR
Well-known member
Whether we like it or not the simple truth is that the showring - Denver, Louiville, Ft Worth, Houston, etc etc is the only place where the general public and the cattle industry come togather in one place at the same time in large numbers. People with no idea of where milk, eggs, cheese, steak or much of anything else go to these shows to LOOK. Yes, I know it gets extremely tiresome answering stupid questions that your 4 year old would know the answers to about cattle but these people are clueless and really don't know. The impression you make on these people from an educational stand point is what they take home with them at the end of the day.
As far as promotional idea's for the cattle industry that will target these people on a day to day basis, I really don't have a better idea. If I did I woould probably be much better off in the financial world than I am today. I do know that I have yet to meet a woman that is not in love with Sam Elliots voice. RW
As far as promotional idea's for the cattle industry that will target these people on a day to day basis, I really don't have a better idea. If I did I woould probably be much better off in the financial world than I am today. I do know that I have yet to meet a woman that is not in love with Sam Elliots voice. RW
jbh
Well-known member
DL says - "There are multiple grass roots efforts emerging from various segments of agriculture - it appears that we ans a group have generically woken up to the threat that is HSUS and PETA
Show Heifer says - "Still not sure what this whole thread is about. Except that someone has finally caught on or accepted the fact that animal rights activist are doing a much better job at "educating the public" than we are about our own industry.
As I said in an EARLIER POST.....I have been asked to help with an ad campaign and I'm simply trying to get a feel on these issues......I can't say anymore than that right now. BUT, could either of you give me an example of ANYTHING being done in this arena, right now, by OUR PEOPLE ( INCLUDE the WHOLE AG COMMUNITIY) that would be RECOGNIZED by the general masses of people across the nation who aren't familiar with us, (an example similar to what the PETA and HSUS campaigns are doing now???)
And Show Heifer.....you can't convince me that the entire BEEF WORLD cannot come together on one ISSUE and get something accomplished together. I not talking about sharing philosophies about how to breed cattle....I'm talking about sharing philosophies on how to keep the FREEDOM to breed and feed WHATEVER type of cattle they want. I'm living proof that they can UNITE....even though it was a silly contest in NYC.....you can't imagine how MANY DIFFERENT aspects of the ag community rallied to vote for me, I've got the emails to prove it. EVERY States Cattleman's Associations sent out MASS emailers....the womens organizations done the same.....many top food companies, packing plants, AG colleges and it goes on and on and the fingers keep spreading into more and more industries! I knew of two celluar phone companies, and some big time FINANCE COMPANIES ALL jumped on board. That's how I know it can be done. That's how I know the right campaign can be EFFECTIVE.
I'm DEFINITELY NOT SAYING that it is just the show cattle people that will be doing this......what I'm saying is.....WE NEED TO PARTICIPATE in the BIG SCHEME of things and I haven't heard ANYBODY talking about it yet??. We have the KIDS, we have the RECREATIONAL ASPECT and we have an unbelievable amount of TALENT amongst US. The post about catering to the female agenda is dead on......that's why I feel my points are SO VALID.
Show Heifer says - "Still not sure what this whole thread is about. Except that someone has finally caught on or accepted the fact that animal rights activist are doing a much better job at "educating the public" than we are about our own industry.
As I said in an EARLIER POST.....I have been asked to help with an ad campaign and I'm simply trying to get a feel on these issues......I can't say anymore than that right now. BUT, could either of you give me an example of ANYTHING being done in this arena, right now, by OUR PEOPLE ( INCLUDE the WHOLE AG COMMUNITIY) that would be RECOGNIZED by the general masses of people across the nation who aren't familiar with us, (an example similar to what the PETA and HSUS campaigns are doing now???)
And Show Heifer.....you can't convince me that the entire BEEF WORLD cannot come together on one ISSUE and get something accomplished together. I not talking about sharing philosophies about how to breed cattle....I'm talking about sharing philosophies on how to keep the FREEDOM to breed and feed WHATEVER type of cattle they want. I'm living proof that they can UNITE....even though it was a silly contest in NYC.....you can't imagine how MANY DIFFERENT aspects of the ag community rallied to vote for me, I've got the emails to prove it. EVERY States Cattleman's Associations sent out MASS emailers....the womens organizations done the same.....many top food companies, packing plants, AG colleges and it goes on and on and the fingers keep spreading into more and more industries! I knew of two celluar phone companies, and some big time FINANCE COMPANIES ALL jumped on board. That's how I know it can be done. That's how I know the right campaign can be EFFECTIVE.
I'm DEFINITELY NOT SAYING that it is just the show cattle people that will be doing this......what I'm saying is.....WE NEED TO PARTICIPATE in the BIG SCHEME of things and I haven't heard ANYBODY talking about it yet??. We have the KIDS, we have the RECREATIONAL ASPECT and we have an unbelievable amount of TALENT amongst US. The post about catering to the female agenda is dead on......that's why I feel my points are SO VALID.
