Opinions needed on bull -- DL ?? or ??

[DL]

Hey, have heard lots of good things about Catalyst!!! Saw Holtkamps heifer and she was just flat awsome!!!
Everyone I have talked to really likes Lamborgini, too bad he wasn't used more, but he was used in a few herds with lots of luck.  I know Chad sure loves him! I would love to know more about him...bw, ww, etc.  I'll miss seeing him in Denver, but would love for you to post a pic!!! (clapping)

ask and ye shall receive Sorry can't help you with Catalyst
Diamond M used a bit of Midas and has some really good cattle - they bred some of the very influential bulls (as well as females) in the breed - where is the bull now???

 

[Joe Boy]

I like the Midas in him to get you keeper females.

I think both of the bulls that we have been reading about could be the next real deal.  I like what I have seen of them...

I messed up last week by being a week late.  I had a chance to buy a bull calf just weaned that was sired by Midas and his dam was a Draft Pick and he tested clean...... a fellow beat me to his birth place......

Best wishes on "Joe" and "Catalyst."

 

[afhm]

What about Intense Plus?  He would add PHAF Draft Pick and Legacy Plus genetics to your herd.  There were some pretty impressive females out of him at McCreary's dispersal and a couple awesome daughters in last years Exposure Sale.

 

[DL]

DL, since you answered Cowboy's question w/ other bulls, I take you wouldn't use Joe? Maybe another question is have you ever used a new bull on older cows?

Just asking'
Red

Hey Red - well am I slow or what! Actually I have used a new outcross bull on one occasion in a different decade - he was touted as a calving ease bull - my calves out of adult cows averaged 125 lbs - lost one calf, one cow to a uterine abscess and one calf had a lethal congenital heart defect (Tetrology of Fallot) so she had to be euthanized at 3 months - it isn't genetic but I blamed the bull anyhow! The surviving calves were OK, not great. I used the bull again in a clean out the tank way on a really big cow and got a decent steer.

I am not much of a gambler when it comes to my cows - I have a pretty good sense of what works for what I want and go with it ...

It is basically irrelevant to me what show a bull wins - I use fertile, structurally correct, big footed, long lived (and in a perfect world polled) high percentage Maine bulls who are phenotypically pleasing to me - the goal is fertile, long lived, big footed, structurally correct cows with beautiful udders that get pregnant on one straw, calve unassisted and raise a growthy calf with minimal to zero supplement to either cow or calf - they also need to be pleasing for me to look at.

I pick my bulls based on the above and I exclude bulls (who may be perfectly lovely) if I don't like the name or its implication, if I don't like the way the bull was promoted, if there is lots of unrelated hype and little bull, or if the owners have a history of sins of omission.

I am also wary of  bulls that die young - sure bulls get injured doing their thing and sure the price of semen goes up when the bull dies - sometimes there seems to be a pattern (how many dead young bulls does it take to make a pattern?? 2? 3?) - always a red flag. It is hard to judge longevity in young bulls.

We have lots of snow, the Sabres are winning, the cows are happy and very pregnant so I am in heaven 

 

[Cowboy]

"" I pick my bulls based on the above and I exclude bulls (who may be perfectly lovely) if I don't like the name or its implication, if I don't like the way the bull was promoted, if there is lots of unrelated hype and little bull, or if the owners have a history of sins of omission.  ""

DL -- I think we all know you dislike the name and what it MAY imply -- and of course your dislike of his previous ad campaign, but I am confused some what by what you mean by "Sins of Omission".

It has been cold, snowing and miserable here for days, so I am really not myself. Tractor broke down as I was bringing in bales tonight, so it has been a less than admirable day.

Please fill me in on what you mean, I am curious as to what that may imply!

Thanks -- hope your day went better than mine!

Terry

 

[red]

Terry it has been awful here too. The hubby tried to go to church Sunday but had to turn around & come back. It was blowing so hard I couldn't see outside.

I am willing to try new bulls but on proven cows of mine. I'm not sure about "sins of omission". Unless someone has flat out lied about a bull or his bloodlines I will consider using their bulls. I will do my own research & also talk to others that have used their bulls. I'm sure many you lump in the sins line I will use. I'll continue using Lautner bulls & also will continue working w/ Rowe's genetics.

I like Gigolo Joe. He brings many of the traits that I'm looking for in a Maine bull. I don't have to agree w/ every thing a breeder does to be able to use their bulls. I'm sure many things I've done over the years would prevent some from using my cattle.

Red

 

[DL]

Cowboy - "sons of omission" to me is big letters TH FREE and no mention that the bull is a PHA carrier - I (personally) think it is shabby advertising - there are several breeders out there who I have contacted who flat out told me their bull was a carrier of TH or PHA - hats off to them - I won't use that bull, but sure would consider using a clean bull from them before using a bull from someone who didn't disclose all the info -

I was generically answering Reds question - I don't (didn't) like the bull named OJ or Kaito or some others that have faded from my mind - if you have to use sex or disaster or something else to sell you bull (IMHO) you have missed the point

Red - yup we probably have all done something stupid - but sometimes how we responds tells more than what we did to begin with - I prefer using bulls that are promoted as bulls with info about the bull - bulls that are products of programs that are successful (in my mind) or bulls that have been proven and would be a good match for my cows.

I have had a hard time finding newer high percentage Maine bulls that I like for my cows, consequently I have been looking elsewhere -  ELBEEs Wymore - while not a total youngster is a newer bull I used this year and if he works as I expect, I will use more - if ELBEE had named his bull The Pimp or the bulls dam was The Streetwalker chances are I wouldn't have used him  IMHO how people name and promote their cattle says a lot about them - I can breed my cows how I want them for my program - others can do the same

and let me be perfectly clear I was NOT referring to Juli, the lawyer and their bull in regards to sins of omission - I was discussing my generic criteria - they have been very up front with the negative status of their bull

You asked the question - you got the answer 

 

[frostback]

Although we(DL and myself) breed for totally different outcomes if I were to pick what bulls to use by that criteria I dont think there would be much left to chose from.  (lol)

 

[common sense]

I was generically answering Reds question - I don't (didn't) like the bull named OJ or Kaito or some others that have faded from my mind - if you have to use sex or disaster or something else to sell you bull (IMHO) you have missed the point

Red - yup we probably have all done something stupid - but sometimes how we responds tells more than what we did to begin with - I prefer using bulls that are promoted as bulls with info about the bull - bulls that are products of programs that are successful (in my mind) or bulls that have been proven and would be a good match for my cows.

I have had a hard time finding newer high percentage Maine bulls that I like for my cows, consequently I have been looking elsewhere -  ELBEEs Wymore - while not a total youngster is a newer bull I used this year and if he works as I expect, I will use more - if ELBEE had named his bull The Pimp or the bulls dam was The Streetwalker chances are I wouldn't have used him  IMHO how people name and promote their cattle says a lot about them - I can breed my cows how I want them for my program - others can do the same

and let me be perfectly clear I was NOT referring to Juli, the lawyer and their bull in regards to sins of omission - I was discussing my generic criteria - they have been very up front with the negative status of their bull

I appreciate not being linked with "sins of omission" however I need to set the record straight.  I am NOT a lawyer.  I am a person that is promoting a bull that is a product of a breeding program and a bull that comes from a long and strong family line on the top and bottom of his pedigree.  I promote him as being SAFE and I promote him as being SOUND because he has been tried and tested.  I am a person that stands behind my product and promote them with faith and honesty.  I am also a person that does not base her breeding program on the name of an animal.  I believe it was once said, and I may not get this worded EXACTLY right, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone!".  I find it VERY ironic that you have to nerve to say the things you have said about my family, our livestock and our program when you in fact own a cow named JEZEBELL!  IMHO,you need to find a mirror and spend some time studying the person in the glass.

---PEACE OUT!

 

[knabe]

to lighten things up a bit, i offer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1-Q8ly8iKE&feature=related            america is waiting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QLXTsviMxk                                    mea culpa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg59phg8KV4                                  this one was taken off the hi fidelity re release out of fear of insulting islam, it only appeared on vinyl.  moral relativism.  look up the quote about this on the wiki reference and you will understand selective dhimmitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkGAltttzFc&feature=related              the jezebel spirit  (this is a taped exorcism by an african tribal "witch doctor" and put to music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bddWE2pZi3I                                    not so secret life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf-caeuPwO4                                    this one is probably one of my favorites of all time, builds and releases twice in a short period of time at 2:12

these are off one of my favorite albums by david byrne and brian eno titled "my life in a bush of ghosts".  most are extremely difficult dubbings and remasterings before technology was around to do this and relied on "found objects".  My Life In The Bush of Ghosts was recorded entirely with analogue technology, before the advent of digital sequencing and MIDI(wiki reference).  kind of a landmark album. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Life_in_the_Bush_of_Ghosts_(album)
by the way, this is a audiophile album and sounds great cranked to the max.
announcing these links removes any doubt i'm weird.

 

[DL]

I was generically answering Reds question - I don't (didn't) like the bull named OJ or Kaito or some others that have faded from my mind - if you have to use sex or disaster or something else to sell you bull (IMHO) you have missed the point

I appreciate not being linked with "sins of omission" however I need to set the record straight.  I am NOT a lawyer.  I am a person that is promoting a bull that is a product of a breeding program and a bull that comes from a long and strong family line on the top and bottom of his pedigree.  I promote him as being SAFE and I promote him as being SOUND because he has been tried and tested.  I am a person that stands behind my product and promote them with faith and honesty.  I am also a person that does not base her breeding program on the name of an animal.  I believe it was once said, and I may not get this worded EXACTLY right, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone!".  I find it VERY ironic that you have to nerve to say the things you have said about my family, our livestock and our program when you in fact own a cow named JEZEBELL!  IMHO,you need to find a mirror and spend some time studying the person in the glass.

---PEACE OUT!

My understanding was that your husband was a lawyer - if I am mistaken I apologize - Red asked a question about how I pick my bulls - I answered it - it had nothing to do with you or your bull - I simply answered Red's question - you  don't have to like the answer

PS - Jezebel may be a name for a scheming evil woman (as well as the wife of Ahab) but Jezabelle is the name of a European actress - as you can now see there is a difference and FYI I don't know who Jezebell is

 

[Show Heifer]

Wow, what about the quote "I'm game...."  Does that ring a bell to anyone?????
Or was all that "Christmas cheer" that some people agree to just another "grey area"?
And please keep in mind I, personally, didn't agree to it then.

I guess each of us must decide what is best (bull, heifer bloodlines) for our program. Each of us must decide how to promote our livestock. Each of us must decide how we want the purchasing public to preceive us (seller).  I guess pick your path and don't get all defensive. At least be proud of your own decisions  (Take ownership).

So that being said, I guess all we can do is answer the questions that are ask of us, and deal with it.