PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns

[oakview]

When fullblood Maines were accepted into the ASA herdbook as 3/4 bloods, the general consensus was they were above 75% in Shorthorn blood.  Native French cattle crossed with Shorthorns was what I read.  I doubt if an Angus would come anywhere close to 3/4 Shorthorn.  Judging from the 80's, there would be many Angus with more Maine in them than Shorthorn.  I'm sure there's plenty of literature out there with a more complete story.

 

[RyanChandler]

Would the Maines be closer related to the Shorthorns than say the Angus breed. Aren't the "British breeds" all related way back.

Closer related for sure but still are far enough away that the notion of going back to ‘Durham blood’ is just silly-

Red advantage has made little to no impact on the breed as a whole.  In fact I know of no purebred breeders that would even consider using him. 

I would say that Red Advantage has made an impact in the breed. Look at his son Red Reward.

Name a single seedstock outfit that’s still using genetics he’s influenced in their herds.  I can l ie of several that have used him but none of those pedigrees are showing up anymore.  Boardwalk may be the only exception I can think of.

 

[knabe]

Very few pedigreed angus have had their papers pulled.

It’s pretty clear there are no such things as breeds from dna analysis.

Breed associations are merely mostly known pedigree repositories.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Really just appendix registries.

Not good or bad.

 

[oakview]

You're right.  The breed associations just keep track of what people send them.  Hopefully, the DNA testing will help keep things "straight."  A question for some of you Angus folks, didn't Weaver Angus Farm's bull named Sport have his paper's pulled in the 70's for the mulefoot defect? 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Red Demand? Ever heard of Jay Benham there are over 400 progeny registered to Red Demand  since 2011-24 or so in 2019-The bull is at Stone Springs still breeding cows at 10-thought there are quite a few daughters in the herd.Daughters? quite a few all over  Sons? Demand Soundness, Demand It etc-137  and 38 mainly from one small breeder So theres approx 550 head registered-and as the tired cliches go-not every calf gets registered And fads-popularity in the show ring and purebred game change-How many cattle are still coming from the genetics you used 9 or ten years ago?As far as the Red Rewards-Resolve,Sensation,Red Blood,Deception, Eagle Eye Kohlstadts bull, Schrags bull,Rods Bull, Wills bull and a bunch of others the influence of these cattle is OBVIOUS-and have finally gained momentum after Reward ET AL were not available to the huddled masses for many years O0

 

[cbcr]

It’s pretty clear there are no such things as breeds from dna analysis.

Breed associations are merely mostly known pedigree repositories.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Really just appendix registries.

Not good or bad.

To some degree knabe, you are probably right.

We are having a discussion right now with dairy breeds.  The CDCB (Council on Dairy Cattle Breeding) has came out with BBR (Breed Base Representation) where the breed percentages of an animal can be determined by the DNA SNP's.

While we ourselves as a registry do more research and do our best to document the ancestry of an animal, ultimately that information (even from other breed association is based on what breeders have provided.

One place that we are different is the fact that we want to document ALL known ancestry.  So many associations, if an animal is out of a registered cow of a different they breed, they will not document it.

Back to breed percentages.  On a dairy bull from our research for his pedigree, we have him with 29% Brown Swiss, 50% Ayrshire breeds and 21% Holstein.  The surprising part is his BBR.  He comes back as being only 25.9 Ayrshire breeds, 39.5 Brown Swiss, 31.7 Holstein and 2.9 percent Jersey.

As genomics become more widely used and the SNP markers are available, then breed purity on animals can be questioned.

 

[knabe]

As genomics become more widely used and the SNP markers are available, then breed purity on animals can be questioned.

there is no breed purity.  never was, never will be.  pretty clear.

the numbers you posted are well within error. not unexpected.

associations are simply to record pedigree as best they can and market those pedigrees through various outlets.

really, at some level, breeds are only distinguished by coat color, hair density, horns, hump, a bottle necked population and little else.

 

[RyanChandler]

Red Demand? Ever heard of Jay Benham there are over 400 progeny registered to Red Demand  since 2011-24 or so in 2019-The bull is at Stone Springs still breeding cows at 10-thought there are quite a few daughters in the herd.Daughters? quite a few all over  Sons? Demand Soundness, Demand It etc-137  and 38 mainly from one small breeder So theres approx 550 head registered-and as the tired cliches go-not every calf gets registered And fads-popularity in the show ring and purebred game change-How many cattle are still coming from the genetics you used 9 or ten years ago?As far as the Red Rewards-Resolve,Sensation,Red Blood,Deception, Eagle Eye Kohlstadts bull, Schrags bull,Rods Bull, Wills bull and a bunch of others the influence of these cattle is OBVIOUS-and have finally gained momentum after Reward ET AL were not available to the huddled masses for many years O0

Nope nve heard him.  Might have been 3 bulls sold last year collectively amongst all your name drops.  I agree a whole lot of calves sires by red demand.  My point was that these lines faded away.  As all fad lines do.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Name drop and a pigs kazotzka-Hes been a well known breeder for at least 50 years-has a Shorthorn feedlot with every animal spoken for, He has always had good functional cattle that GROW-and currantly also uses bulls from Studer, Gilman,and a very good Oklahoma CE bull called Private Malone-I saw 40 or so of his calves in 2013 or so last time I was there.EVEN bean counters (EPD WORSHIPERS LIKE BYLAND-in jest) used several bulls from him heavily-Like Stone Springs Fire Cracker who was around probably before you knew what a cow was.He also used 4S Impact Shaker-who was the best carcass deal ever accoring to him-and to Augment Homedale Flash-Dividends Impact X Duke of Dublin Etc-SURELY YOU HAVE HERD OF KAEHLERS in MINN. As far as the Red Demand Reward lines etc fading-thats simply a matter of looking at the registrations -which far outnumber anything you have used Thats like saying Dividend has no influence LOL The idea is to keep moving and ad what will complement what came before which is what he has done for the 30 years I have known about him Sorry-didnt meet him and talk till 1991 -Which brings me to the question-How many cattle go back to your breeding? Lets see some numbers O0

 

[Weezie]

So did many Maine bulls breed similar to Red Advantage or was Red Advantage more of an anomaly? What kind of cows would Red Knight and Cunia work on today? I'm appreciating the suggestions and knowledge. Thank you! If there are any other purebred Maine's feel free to continue to bring them up.

 

[knabe]

So did many Maine bulls breed similar to Red Advantage or was Red Advantage more of an anomaly? What kind of cows would Red Knight and Cunia work on today? I'm appreciating the suggestions and knowledge. Thank you! If there are any other purebred Maine's feel free to continue to bring them up.

one should have a 2-3 generation breeding plan if you are going to use maine's.

like any fire/ice mating, expect to cull heavier.

I would probably get some advice on how to feed them. 

they are a later maturing breed.