Pedigree-O-philes start your engines - the hunt continues

[DL]

OK BOYS, the hunt for the dirty doer stalled when there was no obvious connection between Draft Pick (PHAC) who traced to Paramount (PHAC) and Stinger (PHAC)...and so we all took a vacation, but...the bull RSCC Roots 100P (334691) has been recently tested as a PHAC. No DP, No Stinger, No Paramount, no Payback....So what do ya think?? Can we hunt him down?? I'll be sending Dr B some Polleroid but otherwise let the hunt begin again!! The finder of the Big Drity Doer will receive (not only undying gratitude, but also) a fine gift!  ;D

 

[red]

boy, I just can't imagine Polleriod being a suspect!  Jerry Cramer had him here in Ohio for a long time. We had a nice heifer out of him. The first one my daughter really did well with. Polleriod died in Texas I believe.
Will have to get Telos on the ball!
Red

 

[red]

Once again a ZTA cow is involved. Has 224X ever been tested?
could this be a case of "who's your daddy" since they lines are coming from ZTA's & maybe a herd bull or something got mixed up in there? Any DNA testing done?

At least we know who the daddy of anna Nicole's baby is!!! (clapping)

 

[ELBEE]

Did you Maine folks consider "parental varifiacation" as you go? You all might be over complicating the whole thing. 

 

[DL]

Once again a ZTA cow is involved. Has 224X ever been tested?
could this be a case of "who's your daddy" since they lines are coming from ZTA's & maybe a herd bull or something got mixed up in there? Any DNA testing done?

At least we know who the daddy of anna Nicole's baby is!!! (clapping)

Yeah - it is an interesting pedigree - we probably have to go way back. I don't think 224X has ever been tested.

Going back thru Polleroids dam to Hollyshire Flirt we get to Univers 15 who is (interestingly) Paramount's grand father.

Now we know that Black Gold, Red Alert and Cunia are negative; we presume Midas is negative (hope so bred a heifer to him last night!) - really haven''t done anything with Polleroid - haven't really thought about him and off the top of my head other than Jerry's flushes (Direct Deposit, Golden Portrait etc) the only Polleroid I really remember is Pollstar.....guess it is back to looking for ancient Maine semen! dl

 

[DL]

Did you Maine folks consider "parental varifiacation" as you go? You all might be over complicating the whole thing. 

Not sure what you mean? We are sort of stuck as to who  the "Imrpover" is in PHA - we get to Paramount but we can't find him in Stinger or Payback (who of cousre has a pretty useless pedigree for our purposes). Of course all the pedigrees could be wrong too! The AMAA board voted to not require parental verification for test results based on the fact that there were samples (from the PHA testing) should there ever be a parentage issue and the fact that it just appeared to add cost to the producer with no real benefit. What I know about this bull is that his sire was an embryo and his current owner submitted the sample an dgave a potential buyer the results. That said he may not be who is suppose to be but he may be too and if that is the case there is a link back many many years ago in a land far far away.......ps how was it that it came about that your Improver was not related to THe Improver? dl

 

[red]

Elbee the trouble is many of these old bloodlines are incomplete or wrong. We're finding that many of the fullbloods are missing vital information. Also they didn't do DNA testing on a lot of the older lines.

Red

 

[ELBEE]

Kevin Culhane, that's one guy I'll point my finger at, matter of fact all five fingers, better yet, my fist. Ireland's version of a sleasy club jocky. Bet this post would get pulled from any other Web-site!

Signed,
Lee A. Bigham

 

[red]

From Wises' website:

ZTA BLACK RUBY 224X
FOLLOWS DRAFTPICK
TO THE U.S.

Wise Maine-Anjou Ranch have an international reputation for selling some of the industry's most attractive seedstock. The sale of ZTA BLACK RUBY 224X to a major breeder in the state of Ohio was a highlight for the Wise family.

A 1994 advertisement for "Draftpick" now in the U.S. best illustrates the confirmation and composition of the Wise genetics. Describing the Draftpick bull as "perhaps the thickest, most heavily muscled bull available. Fifty eight inches tall and 2,300 lbs". Sired by ZTA Nortex General, his Dam ZTA Black Ruby 535P, by AA Black Gold (ZTA Black Ruby was sold to BluePrint Cattle Co. in Lind's 1999 Sale)

Draftpick

 

[red]

Donors & AI sires still need to be DNA tested, also any ET calves. You just don't have to send in blood for DNA when you send in your samples for TH/PHA testing. Jill set me straight on that one & I appreciated getting my facts right!

Red ))

 

[knabe]

found this looking up that name

http://www.irishherd.com/

couple of super thick bulls and a couple of strange looking thin ones.  same with the females

 

[Jill]

I'm with Red, I would be really surprised if Polleroid was a carrier, he was heavily used by Diamond M and others in this part of the country, but I guess stranger things have happened.
This is just my opinion and it may be wrong, but I think alot of the Maine problems occurred in trying to go black.  We lost alot of the pedigree/epd information by leaving blanks instead of actually putting the pedigree of the animal into the books, and unfortunately that is what is still being done.  It makes it very difficult to ever trace a pedigree on anything in the Maine breed.

 

[ELBEE]

found this looking up that name

http://www.irishherd.com/

couple of super thick bulls and a couple of strange looking thin ones.  same with the females

They look just like the imported Shorthorns, only black.

 

[Gypsy]

Red -  Last time I registered an embryo calf I did not have to submit blood.  That may be just if they are more than a couple of years old?  Is the Roots bull's dam dead?  (X sure could be) and was a second test done on the Root's bull?  Cuz, I've had several animals tested that are offspring of Polleroid and they are all clean.  One was out of Polleroid and a 224X daughter.  Clean.  My bet is on a continuing chapter in the "Who's Your Daddy" mystery.

 

[red]

humm... did you have to send in tail hairs? That would be testing for DNA also.
I've just never heard of any PHA calves from Polleriod. It is strange that so many came from ZTA cattle.

Red (cow)

 

[Gypsy]

No tail hairs.  Nothing but a form, but it has been a year or two, maybe the Assn. has changed the rules about registering embryo calves?  The only difference used to be that you had to have the owner of the dam's  (at the time of the flush) signature.  I have had a couple of cows that I have flushed that I still had to get a signature on the form because I bought the embryos from flushes that occurred prior to my purchase of the cow.

 

[red]

No, this was a couple of years ago that I sent in tail hairs for ET calves. Now I'm really confused!!!
Why would you even need blood samples from donors if they're not going to test the ET calves?
???
Red

 

[DL]

OH be still my beating heart - I have never heard of a PHA calf from Polleroid either BUT he is the only easily available animal on that pedigree who hasn't been tested - hence my thought of sending semen to Dr B. I think he was used quite a bit, but maybe heavily is a bit too strong?? - and although Diamond M used him (should go back thru their old sale catalogs) they didn't as I recall cross him with DP genetics......so we test him. And remember just having one or 2 Polleroids who are clean (and I do too Gypsy) doesn't really mean a thing statistically (although it is important personally!)...... (cow)

ps - We don't  have to submit DNA to register ET calves - it is the the donors and the sires......as long as they are on record we can register the calves.

 

[ELBEE]

I've asked the same question on the Shorthorn deal. I believe if every AI and ET animal were parentally verified, it could be called forced honesty. I can see a financial issue with natural breds, but AI and ET parental tests costing too much is a lame excuse. Associations could add the cost to they're certs.

I also believe the technology is there to determine parentage, deceased, by testing multiple siblings.

 

[Jill]

I don't know that Embryo's need it (they used to but I think they stopped that several years ago) Donors and any AI sire are required to have it on file.
I can't find on the web site where it says what has to be DNA typed anymore, I just know I had to have it done on my Donors and they say they will not register cattle out of them without it.