politics

[ShortyJ13]

i don't know,
i mean this post may be completely pointless
and i know that this is with ANYTHING that you do... but i guess misery loves it's company.

is it just me or are the politics of livestock showing driving us all crazy? I'm in this because of what i get out of it, and what i can give to others. for instance, I'm a freshman in high school, and Ive been showing for about 8 years now. (not necessarily cattle, but period). and sometimes I'm asked to teach show clinics at my local 4-h clubs. the looks on these kids faces when they learn something new... when I'm at a show and a little kid is running up to me screaming "good luck!" or jumping for joy when they win... and their looking up to me. that's what I'm in this for. when i take a calf from a local breeder and turn it into a show calf, because it was their dream to have an animal from their heard be a winner.. that's what I'm in this for. i love to take my talents Ive accumulated of my years of showing to simply make people happy, and get younger kids involved in something that changed my life, and that i know could do that same for them.

I'm so sick of going to shows and seeing people cheating, and people fighting. even hearing the feuds within my own showteams. it makes me want to ask "is this all you in this for?, ... to win?" i mean is that really the most important thing?

sorry for whining, i just had to vent
I'm sure all of you know all to well what I'm talking about in some form or fashion.

 

[dutch pride]

A livestock show is a competition and as such there are always winners and not winners. There are two reasons IMO that one enters a competition, either to win of for the "love of the game". I would say most people who enter have some combination of both of these reasons with varying degrees of each. My experience is that some adults lean more towards winning side of things which can spoil the "love of the game" for a lot of others, kids included.

I think that the most important thing is what was learned or experienced. Winning should be icing on the cake. Cheating just to win should not be tolerated.

That said, some adults and kids are more competitive than others and use every method that is legal to win. That should not be held against them either.

ShortyJ13; you seem to have a very good attitude and the heart of a teacher. Keep up the good work and by being a good example you will have a better impact on those around you than those who enter only to win at all costs.

DLZ

 

[aj]

Good discussion.My wife always said if you can't take the heat get out of the barn. But the show cattle deal is getting interesting. Genetic defects are tolerated in order to win.It is so weird that th and pha has become accepted in the show ring world and the phenotype that goes along with it.Big birth weights are accepted. I guess this is because there is so much flushing going on and who cares if you kill a receipt cow in the birthing process if you can get a 130# bw calf that sells for 6,000 $ or more. It seems like there is a big disconnect between the showring and the commercial cattle world. It has always been like that I guess. I know it has always bugged me that say Shorthorn breeders just don't understand why commercial cattle people won't use these cattle. I saw a deal the other day where a show heifer was so fat that the her brisket was iced before she would go into the ring. This was eye opening to me.She is a great female but I'd never seen that before. In this time of population creep into the country I sometimes wonder if how long acres will be available to run cows on anyway. Taking care of show cattle can be a great family activity and it teaches youth to be responsible. The use of drugs scares me more than anything.I know buying a steer at a county fair sometimes makes me wonder if there could be a problem with harvesting the animal and consuming it. Great disscusion.

 

[red]

another thing I find sad is when a young person, who has really worked w/ their project, wins & no one congratulates them. Poor sportsmanship can also ruin the show ring. sometimes the parents are the worse.

Red

 

[maine106]

Honestly I do not think it is that much worse.  It may be more discussed and people are more open about it.  My Dad, who turned 65, talks about his 4-H barrow that won each show until they ran into the neighbors relative as a judge.  He said what he remembers most is learning life is not fair.  There always has been a disconnect between the showring and the commercial world and I imagine there always will be one.

Have I suffered the fate of a political judge?  Oh yeah more than once and I did not like it one bit!!  But I think there IS a valuable lesson for kids and adults to take away from this.  Everywhere you look there is such a sense of entitlement.  Teachers cannot use red pens on papers because it will upset kids, grades are becoming a thing of the past, everyone makes every a team and has to play no matter what and on and on. Now if someone does not like a decision they just hire an attorney.  I am a huge believer in learning that life is not fair.  It can teach a child to take actual pride in their work in spite of the outcome.  Pride seems to be a thing of the past when it comes to work.  I also see dignity, graciousness, poise, and confidence as the lessons that can be learned. 

One thing that compromises this---and  Shorty I am NOT saying you did this in any manner--is people want to say something like "well it's ok that they won.  They are crooks, liars, cheats, etc. and we are better then they are."  Seems to me a good portion of the lesson is lost.  They made their choice we made ours and as long as we really did do what we could to impact what we could (feeding right, hours of brushing, etc.) then we can walk away satisfied.  While there are a limited amount of champion this or that handed out each year there really is not a limit on happiness.

aj no offense but I have to tell you I bristle a bit about the comment about wondering about the safety of  meat from the county fair steer.  We had a discussion on here, I do not remember off the top of my head if you were participating or not, where another member made what seems to be false claims about an Iowa State fair buyer who ended up with "tainted meat."  To help me understand your concerns are you aware of meat that tested positive for a drug that has been sold?    What was the drug? 

Personally I am just not afraid of the drugs in meat.  Perhaps this is simple minded of me but I believe the heat from cooking meat will do the trick for me.

Red is right that parents are the worst at this!!  Kids would really not know if parents were not telling them they should have won and they lost for political reasons.  The kids are going to decide how to respond on how the adults react.  So if you are the first one over to shake the hands of the people you don't like one bit there will likely be a wide-eyed young one following right behind you!

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

Winning is fun but it's also fun just to show even if your animals don't place well. I love working with my calves and taking them to the fair where everyone can see them. If a judge doesn't like my animal, it's their loss.

The thing that gets to me sometimes is when a judge doesn't look at all the animals in the class. People work hard all year on their animals. It seems the least a judge can do is look at every single animal in the class.

Politics in the show ring are bad. I've noticed it a lot of times though. It probably isn't even fun to win that way. I like to go to a livestock show to see who has the best animal, not who has the most power and/or friends. I've had good judges and bad judges. Too bad there aren't more good ones because it's a lot more interesting when there's a good one. 

 

[Losin Money]

The best part of showing is the family time spent together.  Sure there are arguments occasionaly, but overall we have a great time.  But I have noticed that it is not hard to pick out the people who are out for blood.  Walk around and pay attention... it wont take you long to figure it out.  As for me and mine, we'll help anyone who needs it and remember our show time together is limited but the memories will last forever.

 

[Show Heifer]

Being that I have been called a lier for something that someone else can not find...thing I will chime in on this...

Your right shorty3....politics are everywhere, including in the show cattle world. The quicker kids learn that life isn't fair and to get over it, the better their life will be....that being said.....I find it MORE offensive when someone has PROOF that someone has cheated and refuses to come forward. Allowing it to continue is absolutely repulsive.
If we wanted a real cattle show, we would have a committee lead the calves to the show ring and turn them loose....that way, no owner to put a face to. No halter holding or judging.

The wisest statement ever: The problem with the youth programs today is that there are too many 40 year old 4-Her's.

AJ: be very careful saying the shorty breed is not "commercial minded"....I recall a huge argument and a banning followed those wise words!

As a teacher I am going to follow one of my hero's' advice: Start with very high standards and then raise them.
I WILL use a red pen, I WILL call a pig a pig (even if it does have lipstick on) and I WILL flunk students.
So I guess if the students and more importantly, parents, don't like it...they can drop my class. It IS an elective.

 

[aj]

I love the shorthorn breed. I respect the Angus,Red Angus, Simmental,Gelvieh,Herford,Limi, and whatever your poison is. I do think that people who have disicpline and breed cattle the way they want to breed them should be applauded. I think the most underated breed in the U.S.A is the herford breed. There are some great Herford cattle out there. They are  not trying to make them black or whatever. They work great in certain enviroments. I applaud breeders who are not recognized naationally or whatever that have the guts to breed cattle the way they want to breed cattle. I remember going toa sale in Norton Ks. probably 30 years ago where some whipper snapper was making fun of some guy dressed in overalls who was quite and in the back row of the sale. He happen to Virgil Wegener and the owner of the cattle who people where coming  from nation wide to bid on cattle. There is something to be said about people with breeding programs. I don't care if it's v-8 or bob Dickenson, or Erdman, or who ever the the the popular line of the month is. There are people who are never recogized that have dedicated their lives to a breed or a line of cattle. They have have the guts and disipline to breed cattle as they see fit. My hats off to Hub's Shorthorns and Waukaura Shorthorns and who ever has a plan and a vision in their uniuque breeding program.Alot of people like kit and sjc and elbee will be ignored till 20 years from now when people will say why didn't every body follow their lead. It takes guts to go against the grain and as always hopefully these people will be rewarded.

 

[ShortyJ13]

thank you all so much.
i'm glad that we can all be open and discuss a topic to so often causes controversy. i wanted to reply with quotes from so many of you becuase its exactly the way i feel. and the bit that said the problem with youth programs todayis that there are too many 40 yr. old 4-h'ers is so true.

take it from an ffa/4-h students point of view. all the instructers that i have been through, have helped me out so much, but some have dont the opposite just as much.. but it always seems as though the fights spring becuase of what we're (the students) told. when someone who is supposed to be teaching you is constantly going on about how you shouldnt speak to this person, dont let this person clip your cows, they dont like us becuase we just have better animals,... its SO heartbreaking. although, don't get me wrong... there are just as many people whom ive fallen in love with, and who ARENT like that. but the fact of the matter still stands.

maybe its just becuase thats not the way i view the world, idk. but i hate looking at things as though the world is out to get me!

i'm just here to say im tired of the contest within the competiton