Rate of Gain at county fairs

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minimoo38

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Courtney Hughes- Bagley, Iowa
what does everyone think?
is it necessary?
what are the pros and cons of having it?
should it even be used at all?
do you think that it limits the judge on deciding who should win?
 

garybob

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minimoo38 said:
what does everyone think?
is it necessary?
what are the pros and cons of having it?
should it even be used at all?
do you think that it limits the judge on deciding who should win?
All pro's, no con's. The original intention of these shows was to teach young people about production agriculture. Now, all we have, anymore, are strictly on-hoof shows for phenotypes that are more often-than-not COUNTER-productive in the real world.
GB
 

Jill

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In our county, it is a contest with no meaning!  Rate of gain only works if everyone has the same starting point, when some are almost 1000 and others are at 600 in April it doesn't make much sense to me.  Our county does an ultrasound contest and the next county over does a hanging carcass contest, I think those two have much more of an impact when trying to teach what you are striving to produce in a market steer.
 

knabe

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Jill said:
In our county, it is a contest with no meaning!  Rate of gain only works if everyone has the same starting point, when some are almost 1000 and others are at 600 in April it doesn't make much sense to me.  Our county does an ultrasound contest and the next county over does a hanging carcass contest, I think those two have much more of an impact when trying to teach what you are striving to produce in a market steer.

this could be changed to a point system, the earlier you had the calf in your possession the more points you get.  how would you minimize overshrink at the start point without making them all be held by a third party for a few days.  perhaps this is part of the reason it has no meaning.
 

garybob

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Jill said:
In our county, it is a contest with no meaning!  Rate of gain only works if everyone has the same starting point, when some are almost 1000 and others are at 600 in April it doesn't make much sense to me.  Our county does an ultrasound contest and the next county over does a hanging carcass contest, I think those two have much more of an impact when trying to teach what you are striving to produce in a market steer.
The trouble is, more dollars are made in this industry, by feeding ugly cattle that gain well and produce an average product, than by wasting feed and time on attractive calves that gain "so-so", and produce a superior product.

;)GB
 

knabe

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garybob said:
Jill said:
In our county, it is a contest with no meaning!  Rate of gain only works if everyone has the same starting point, when some are almost 1000 and others are at 600 in April it doesn't make much sense to me.  Our county does an ultrasound contest and the next county over does a hanging carcass contest, I think those two have much more of an impact when trying to teach what you are striving to produce in a market steer.
The trouble is, more dollars are made in this industry, by feeding ugly cattle that gain well and produce an average product, than by wasting feed and time on attractive calves that gain "so-so", and produce a superior product.

;)GB

great quote GB, if not your best.  the relative market for high quality beef is probably topped out at no more than 20% of the overall market.  that said, it's probably easier to make poor quality beef from "good" cattle than good quality beef out of "poor" cattle.  one exception to this is Safeways program to hang steaks longer so they can guarantee tenderness and call it "ranchers reserve".
 

garybob

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knabe said:
garybob said:
Jill said:
In our county, it is a contest with no meaning!  Rate of gain only works if everyone has the same starting point, when some are almost 1000 and others are at 600 in April it doesn't make much sense to me.  Our county does an ultrasound contest and the next county over does a hanging carcass contest, I think those two have much more of an impact when trying to teach what you are striving to produce in a market steer.
The trouble is, more dollars are made in this industry, by feeding ugly cattle that gain well and produce an average product, than by wasting feed and time on attractive calves that gain "so-so", and produce a superior product.

;)GB
It'll get increasingly important that cattle have to be good on gain and conversion and cost-of-gain with alternative fuels putting pressure on corn supplies, thus making feed expensive.
:mad:

great quote GB, if not your best.   the relative market for high quality beef is probably topped out at no more than 20% of the overall market.  that said, it's probably easier to make poor quality beef from "good" cattle than good quality beef out of "poor" cattle.  one exception to this is Safeways program to hang steaks longer so they can guarantee tenderness and call it "ranchers reserve".
 

Jill

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All I am saying is that Rate of Gain is only a legitamate contest if your steers are all the same age and feed point when they enter the contest and they aren't even close!  If you gave a pen of equally conditioned calves one to each kid and each had to feed them out and see how they come out at the end, then I could see the value, but the way it is run at our fair it is a joke.JMO
 

TJ

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garybob said:
It'll get increasingly important that cattle have to be good on gain and conversion and cost-of-gain with alternative fuels putting pressure on corn supplies, thus making feed expensive.
:mad:

I agree.  Steers will either need to be able to convert grain very efficiently  OR  they will have to be able to gain well on forage alone  OR  a combination of both. 
 

garybob

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Jill said:
All I am saying is that Rate of Gain is only a legitamate contest if your steers are all the same age and feed point when they enter the contest and they aren't even close!  If you gave a pen of equally conditioned calves one to each kid and each had to feed them out and see how they come out at the end, then I could see the value, but the way it is run at our fair it is a joke.JMO
I'll stick by my assertion that practicality must be re-introduced to the Junior Market Livestock Project. Seriously, what are we teaching these Kids?  :'(
 

shortyisqueen

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Another reason it doesn't work very well is because you have a specified end date for your steer whereas a feedlot makes the most money selling them as soon as they are fat. If you have a really good gaining steer, you could have him finished early, but in an effort to win the rate of gain award, keep on pushing him till he was a 1600 lb. over-finished oxen. Now, you've won the award but you've still done a bad job of feeding.

If the steers were all the same age and feed point at weigh in time, then the rate of gain award should technically go to the person wh.o had their steer finished first and sent to market. But it does not work very well for an achievement day if you've finished your steer three months ago.
 

Jill

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Well ours doesn't even take finish into consideration, it is strickly who puts on the most pounds per day and to me that has nothing to do with teaching them how to finish a steer for market.  Seriously, what are we teaching our kids. 
 

knabe

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change, we just need change.  it seems like the steer show is simply the best contest that minimizes an automatic winner, allows those that want to learn, to learn.  those that won't, won't.  shortyisqueen, your king is going to be one lucky guy.  hope my daughter grows up to be as smart as you.
 

DLD

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sw Oklahoma
We don't do adg in conjunction with our county show, but we do have a performance contest that's based on ADG and carcass merit. Originally it was tied to the show, and a percentage of the points were from on hoof placings, but it got to where most of the people feeding for the carcass contest didn't want to halter break them, so it was phased out. It can be a good learning experience for the kids, but honestly, very few of them have anything at all to with it - it's a parent and/or grandparent's project in most cases. Most of the kids don't even know they have a calf in the contest 'til their parents drag 'em to the awards (county cattlemans association) banquet.

The calves are brought to a central location, tattooed and left overnight with free access to grass hay and water, weighed the next morning and sent home. That's good, because it doesn't allow for artificial shrinking at weigh in. But when they're weighed back in the end, they're weighed directly off the trailer and hauled to the packer that evening. We do occasionaly see some artificial fill at weigh back, because winning the ADG pays $200. But it screws up dressing percentage enough to ruin any shot at the carcass contest (which pays $500, $250, $200, $150, $100 and the $50 each to every other entry). Mind you, most of the families that are involved in this contest do not show, so taking the show out of it still doesn't take out the questionable behaviors...
 

farmboy

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I like and dont like it

i dont like it becuase he steer that win s that goes higher in the sale for some reason. i think they go 4th or 5th out here at my fair, quality animals are supposed to be at the top but these rait of gain steers are just here to be ROG champ and sell higher


i like it becuase i won it a few years ago and took that higher spot in the sale after last in class lol  ;)
 

AAOK

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Rogers, Ar

Our County has a really screwed up Steer Show.  The Rate-of-Gain contest reigns Supreme.  All steers are weighed in at the Fall Fair, and must weigh between 400 - 900lbs.  After weighing they are broken into 3 classes to show in March.  The contest is ON!  At the Spring Show, Rate-of-Gain is posted, and the Steer Show begins.  Remember, the classes were determined in September.  The height and weight of the steers in each class is all over the board.  After the Judge places the class, numbers 1-7 are selected by combining the on hoof placing and the rate of gain placing (EX. number 1 on hoof + 7 ROG = 8, probably makes the sale. Number 7 on hoof + 1 ROG = 8, tie)  Get the idea?  The Low Seven steers from each of the three classes are automatically in the Premium auction.  The low point Steer from each class re-enters the ring to compete for Grand Champion.  The winner is the First in the Sale.  The Second steer in the auction is the Rate-of-Gain Champion. (Even if he stood 25th in his class).  You should see all the FAT TOADS and MONSTERS in this bunch.

This is the reason we always Showed Heifers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

showsteerdlux

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Imo rate of gain should be used more than what it is in the show ring today. If someone has been holding a steer and have found a way to keep him looking and feeling fresh this still doesn't help his meat quality. I think that if todays judges were given the rate of gain info that there would be less problems with the 1300lb calves weighed in that have been shrunk back from 14 and 1500. If they weighed in at the lower weight instead of the weight that they had been drawn back from this would kill ADG and judge would be forced to think about the situation. Just my opinion but we should all remember that we are apart of the beef industry and we as producers should have a main goal of getting the consumer a product that is of the best quality which we can produce. Also the calves that have the higher ADG usually finish better which is in turn a better product for the consumer.
 

Jill

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You are confusing rate of gain with finish.  If I have a fabulous rate of gain and my steer is 1300 pound it doesn't translate into a finished steer if that steer doesn't put finish on until he is 1500 pound you have a steer with no finish whatsoever and I don't care what the rate of gain is that meat is going to taste like shoe leather.  We are part of the beef industry and we should have a main goal of getting the consumer a product that is of the best quality which we can produce and that has nothing whatsoever with ADG it has everything to do with FINISH.
 

knabe

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this is gonna sound crazy, and i know it doesn't count for all the marbling and tenderness, but say one had a calf that had an adg of say 2.0 on grass, fattened at 18-22 months, had great hair, was in a class of those, than the got together with the class for straight adg, the class of standard show steer etc and had a roll of champions.  adg isn't everything, cost of inputs versus sale price.  lot's of ways to make a profit.  let's not forget that 50% of the market is for ugly animals including dairy animals that EXCEL at their market, ie costco, walmart and they will never purchase a prime steak, but the animal geared toward that market does a great job, but has no "show" class, just a profit class.  that said, what is the profit on offal?  anyone know?  ie, i've heard some people say they are ok breaking even on feeding, but make profit on offal if contracted.  what does a head go for?  kidney fat for bird food.  i keep seeing all those places a steer goes in the displays at shows, but so little real attention to that market.  and just for a joke, the ultimate offal steer would have feet 3 feet long, kidney fat up the wazoo, a perfect thin or thick hide depending on the market, could even be a 15 year old cow with no blemishes............
 
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