The Ultimate Feed Lot Steer

[mark tenenbaum]

A Charolais crossed with any 2 breed british cow.  Genetics say that third cross is your best and experience tells us all that a Charolais over british always makes an amazing terminal calf.  I would bet that a Galloway/shorty bred to a Charolais bull would be the most efficient animal that ever walked, JMO

(clapping)  I like your way of thinking. 

The Galloway X (Insert  other British breed here) cow bred Char / Limo / Orig Sim/ Gel  will make you money.  Galloways will give you better YG if you wanted to just go witha 2 way british cross.///// Interestingly enuff-the pen carcass record for years at Denver was ShorthornxHighland Cross,there used to be a breed out of that cross in Scotland O0

 

[HAB]

A Charolais crossed with any 2 breed british cow.  Genetics say that third cross is your best and experience tells us all that a Charolais over british always makes an amazing terminal calf.  I would bet that a Galloway/shorty bred to a Charolais bull would be the most efficient animal that ever walked, JMO

(clapping)  I like your way of thinking. 

The Galloway X (Insert  other British breed here) cow bred Char / Limo / Orig Sim/ Gel  will make you money.  Galloways will give you better YG if you wanted to just go witha 2 way british cross.///// Interestingly enuff-the pen carcass record for years at Denver was ShorthornxHighland Cross,there used to be a breed out of that cross in Scotland O0

The Whitebred Shorthorn and the Galloway used to make some awfully nice BLUES that had very good carcasses, and were feed efficient.

 

[Limiman12]

We have had awesome luck with the Angus/ Limousin/ Char cross. My brother runs our commercial division and he uses a  Limi bull on a grade Angus heard. The resulting steers are marketed and the replacements are then bred to a Char or Char composite bull. All calves from this group are terminal market animals. This cross seems to work awesome for our situation and once you find a bull that works, you can keep using him. My brother is on the fifth year using the same Limi bull and the hardest part seems to be finding the right Char bull in our area!

Limi crosses make great cows with longevity as well.....

A recent feedlot test showed that limi crosses cut better and gained as much on less feed then their angus lot mates.    Better YG and more likely to be choice, plus carcass percentage is typicllay higher by 2-3 or as much as 5% of live weight.  I had steer in a carcass class once that had a 4% higher carcass weight percantage then the next closest.   

Angus has far more marketing dollars then the rest of the industry which is probably the main reason "CERTIFIED ANGUS BEEF" is seen as a premium label.    Not bashing angus by any means, they are the foundation for a lot of great momma cows, but to put red meat on the rail need some continental influence.

 

[Limiman12]

At least you guys are considering thing from an informed perspective, regarding your recommendations, as well as thoughts on the original question being presented.

Here is the perplexing quandary in my part of the world....

Let's say my friend, who has a mixed herd of cows, has an older cow that is half Hereford and half Holstein. Black Whiteface. He breeds her to a Limousin bull. The calf comes out either solid black or BWF, because the Limmy Bull is black.
In another pasture,Roy has an older, proven Angus bull. Unfortunately, this Angus bull is a red carrier. 10-15% of the calves are red, no matter what the breed of cow.To someone retaining ownership, this many red calves would suit them,as well as the feedlots and packers they deal with.

Now comes in the weird part.....at a well-run, successful Sale Barn....
The Limmy-sired calf brings $1.97/lb, while the red calves, although Angus-sired, and out of cows that are part Angus as well, at the same weight (625lbs.), only fetch $1.73 per pound.

WTF?????
A black calf with NO Angus in him at all, whatsoever, is valued higher than a red calf that is at least 5/8, or maybe even 3/4 Angus!!!!!

GB

I know buyers, they buy ours, that seek out lim crosses....  as above, better conversion, better cut.    Limousin was originally known as the "butchers friend" in France.

 

[RyanChandler]

Hey XBAR-- your description of being able to identify Angus cattle in a group--especially the "hatchet-ass" shape reminds me of a conversation I had this week
with one of my friends that has been in the Black Angus business for a very long time-- he was talking about what types of Black Angus cattle some of the breeders
are switching or breeding to lately with going back to the smaller frames.  He has a daughter that shows their cattle too and we were talking about a recent show and
he is concerned about the size.  Is the Black Angus trend going back to the smaller "60's" framed cattle?  He was also telling me that he was having a hard time finding
AI sires that he was excited about using this year.   Any opinions are welcome
I kind of worry about the hatchet ass shape myself-- I like to see a nice more square shaped butt over the top, but not extreme.  When I think hatchet ass, I think narrow, narrow, narrow.
Emily

Degree of marbling and amt of muscle are negatively correlated.  This is the ultimate tradeoff in beef production.  Fullblood Continentals will clearly have the yield advantage but they're lucky to grade select.  Wagyu are the king of marbling but lack the substance for adequate yields.  It's all about balancing antagonist beef cattle characteristics here.  Undoubtedly if you increase a terminal trait in your herd, like bone or muscle, you will experience a decrease in your herds maternal traits, like milk and fertility.  This is just the way it works- prime example - heatwave daughters. 

True, there are some animals that can increase both milk and muscle, but those are the dual purpose breeds. While they can do both, they don't do either very good..  You have to specialize. The jack of all trades is the master of none.  This,IMO, is what will be the demise of the Angus breed- trying to be the jack of all trades- trying to compete with the continentals for growth at the EXPENSE of their noted maternal characteristics.  Angus cows were 8-1100lbs for over 100 yrs and then you have what was passed off as Angus in the early 80s.  (Check out some pics of the 1980 Grand Champion Angus bull at Denver.  The bull is frame 10+ and his topline is head high w/ the men behind him).  Hello! Newsflash- there's no such thing as a frame 10 fullblood aberdeen Angus.  I cannot be convinced that 16-1800lb cows can be true, fullblood Angus.  Selective breeding cannot account for individuals within the breed DOUBLING in size in 50yrs time.    As a result, the Angus are no longer low bw, maternal, and marbling specialist- they traded that for 100lb bws, 850 lb ww and 1500lb yws. 

For the sake of shorthorns, I hope the Angus breed doesn't go back to their 1960s form.  Those type of cattle were Angus' claim to fame.  Now I see the Angus breed getting growthier and as a result, losing those foundation qualities.  I firmly believe that the cattle breeders that closely hold on to true breed character will ultimately be rewarded the most - those that breed British breeds for their maternal qualities and those that breed FULLBLOOD Continentals for their respected terminal qualities. 

 

[cornish]

don't we think the Simmental is trying to take that over?  Trying to be the jack of all trades- inject angus and b/c maternal overnight? 

Fads come and go-- and in a few  years people won't want Sim females anymore than they will Angus-- for the same reason-- lack of TERMINAL qualities- in a terminal breed.

Does a modern Day Sim-- even qualify to be a simmental? 

I think I'm going to hang onto some of my Red and White stuff.

 

[HAB]

don't we think the Simmental is trying to take that over?  Trying to be the jack of all trades- inject angus and b/c maternal overnight? 

Fads come and go-- and in a few  years people won't want Sim females anymore than they will Angus-- for the same reason-- lack of TERMINAL qualities- in a terminal breed.

Does a modern Day Sim-- even qualify to be a simmental? 

I think I'm going to hang onto some of my Red and White stuff.

What bulls do you have?  We had a Polled Parisian son that used to really hit it off with our Galloway cows.  PM me a list

 

[JTM]

This is a very opinion based post but what does everyone think. I know that an Angus steer is hard to beat. But doing some searching and looking at the results from a few studies, it has me thinking about crossing my commercial herd (Angus) on herford bulls. I have been nothing but pleased on how my Angus steers have fed out in the feed lot but then again I haven't tried anything else. What have some of you other feedlot operators found to be the most efficient steer to fill your feedlot with. I am just looking to make my operation as efficient and profitable as possible. Thanks Silent Hollow Farm

Silent Hollow Farm, I believe you are on the right track by thinking of crossing up your purebred Angus cows. No matter what breed you choose, you should be able to gain substantial pounds compared to your purebred calves. Of course you will need a high quality bull. I have just recently entered the commercial cattle industry in the last couple of years. My ultimate plan was to get Black Angus cows and put a really good Shorthorn bull on them. My thinking was that they would retain their maternal ability for replacements, bw's would be in control, growth would be increased over purebreds, docility injected for feedlot, superior marbling and choice carcasses, high fertility, and the ability to bring in a purebred continental later if I wanted more hybrid vigor. Overall, I searched for the best cows I could find in the time alotted which ended up being black crossbreds and pb black angus without papers. Then I found a superb 3/4 Shorthorn x 1/4 Red Angus bull that I thought would work. When I first bought the cows they were all bred to purebred black angus bulls, AI'd. Although the calves' ages differed at weaning last year the weights were very impressive. One calf weaned at 775 lbs. This year all of the calves are coming sired by the Shorthorn bull that I bought. These calves are more vigorous, thicker, more volume, and are growing like weeds. There is definitely a positive difference. I agree with people talking about Charolais being the best for siring a crossbred calf that will grow quickly and efficiently in a feed lot, but I believe you are giving up a lot of other things with that decision. With Hereford or Shorthorn you can always retain females with confidence, the marbling and TENDERNESS is going to be much better IMO. Then I have to leave you with this; why use a Hereford when you could use a Shorthorn?  ;D

 

[Telos]

The oltimate feedlot steer is simply the breed or x-breds that a commercial operator can maximize profit with. The feedlot operator and processing plants always make their money. Always. Designing cattle for their benefit doesn't make much sense to me and the consumer could care less as long as they know they are getting a safe and palatable product. Who profits the most on a 16 in. ribeye, YG1, choice carcass? It's probably not the cow/calf operator.

Carcass contests very subjective. Unless we know the total input cost, we really don't have a clue of it's value.

 

[garybob]

The oltimate feedlot steer is simply the breed or x-breds that a commercial operator can maximize profit with. The feedlot operator and processing plants always make their money. Always. Designing cattle for their benefit doesn't make much sense to me and the consumer could care less as long as they know they are getting a safe and palatable product. Who profits the most on a 16 in. ribeye, YG1, choice carcass? It's probably not the cow/calf operator.

Carcass contests very subjective. Unless we know the total input cost, we really don't have a clue of it's value.

Yes, Chef, but.......in the scenario I presented earlier in this discussion thread...."successful" feeder-calf order-buyers paid more for a Limmy-Hereford-Holstein steer---with NO Angus breeding...Absolutely NONE....just because it was a BWF, than competing buyers at the same auction did for red and rwf calves that WERE sired by a red-carrier black Angus bull (and were out of cows that were 1/4 to 3/4 Angus, themselves).
There's nothing that can justify the stupidity of paying "Angus" premium for a calf without Angus..or even Red Angus blood..None.
.

GB

 

[McM93]

This is a very opinion based post but what does everyone think. I know that an Angus steer is hard to beat. But doing some searching and looking at the results from a few studies, it has me thinking about crossing my commercial herd (Angus) on herford bulls. I have been nothing but pleased on how my Angus steers have fed out in the feed lot but then again I haven't tried anything else. What have some of you other feedlot operators found to be the most efficient steer to fill your feedlot with. I am just looking to make my operation as efficient and profitable as possible. Thanks Silent Hollow Farm

Silent Hollow Farm, I believe you are on the right track by thinking of crossing up your purebred Angus cows. No matter what breed you choose, you should be able to gain substantial pounds compared to your purebred calves. Of course you will need a high quality bull. I have just recently entered the commercial cattle industry in the last couple of years. My ultimate plan was to get Black Angus cows and put a really good Shorthorn bull on them. My thinking was that they would retain their maternal ability for replacements, bw's would be in control, growth would be increased over purebreds, docility injected for feedlot, superior marbling and choice carcasses, high fertility, and the ability to bring in a purebred continental later if I wanted more hybrid vigor. Overall, I searched for the best cows I could find in the time alotted which ended up being black crossbreds and pb black angus without papers. Then I found a superb 3/4 Shorthorn x 1/4 Red Angus bull that I thought would work. When I first bought the cows they were all bred to purebred black angus bulls, AI'd. Although the calves' ages differed at weaning last year the weights were very impressive. One calf weaned at 775 lbs. This year all of the calves are coming sired by the Shorthorn bull that I bought. These calves are more vigorous, thicker, more volume, and are growing like weeds. There is definitely a positive difference. I agree with people talking about Charolais being the best for siring a crossbred calf that will grow quickly and efficiently in a feed lot, but I believe you are giving up a lot of other things with that decision. With Hereford or Shorthorn you can always retain females with confidence, the marbling and TENDERNESS is going to be much better IMO. Then I have to leave you with this; why use a Hereford when you could use a Shorthorn?  ;D

I also agree with Telos, but I am not quite smart enough to quote both. With feedstuffs out the roof and a growing population, we will have to have low input cattle to feed the masses. Notice how most cities are built on what used to be the best farmland in the area? We will have to have cattle that can  thrive on what the city dwellers and farmers can't use...

The shorthorn idea is still new on me. The only ones you see in my area have a halter on them. I am crossing my blacks with shorthorns to make replacements. I was never sold on the shorthorn deal until I actually saw data of how much better than they marbled than my favorite cross, the simmy x angus. Same herd, same conditions, etc. British on British and Continental crosses of 1/4 or even less Continental and 3/4 or more British is where we are going to have to be. The ultimate feedlot steer should be the one that is actually in the feedlot the least amount of time and produce a mid-low choice carcass.

Not doubting the Holstein stats, but I don't see low input anywhere in that equation, at least in the Southwest.