THIS IS WHAT DROUGHT LOOKS LIKE ( not really cattle related)

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GONEWEST

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Recently I was informed that my county had been declared a drought area for 2012 and was eligible for all sorts of freebies and loans, etc. etc. And by law then all contiguous counties are eligible as well. I can't EVER remember having this much grass in October. WHY do we have so much grass you ask? RAIN, we have had , more and better timed rainfall than any growing season I can remember. The grass in this picture is about waste high. You can't drive through it because you could run over a calf. But this federal administration has declared this a drought area.  ::)

I have always wondered how in the world people in Iowa and Ohio could ever vote for Obama. Now I know. It's this re-distribution of wealth thing. You people are voting to take my tax dollars and put them into your pocket through agriculture programs like the Ethanol subsidy for instance. And since there really is no money, we are 16 trillion dollars in debt and rising by the second, eventually government will demand more and more of my money to redistribute and give to you for things like propping up Ethanol production which is the poster child for stupidity in this country. It makes all the little rubber hoses on small engines gradually disintegrate leaving small rubber particles to clog up the tiny carburetors and causing costly repairs to those who cant fix them on their own. It is far less efficient than gasoline, which is grossly inefficient its self. I cost MORE to make than gasoline. It causes the price of  animal feed to be so high that my customers who used to buy 3 calves just buy one now because they can't afford to feed that many. It causes the corn products used to make almost everything in the grocery store to go up in price. So tell me why we do this again? Oh yeah. So these big farmers can have million dollar corn crops. Now I know why Iowa votes for Obama.

Unless you live in Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Virgina, Pennsylvania, Florida and maybe one or two other states, you won't have much say so in the coming election. Whether you vote or not, there will be enough people on one side or the other that WILL vote so that that states electoral votes go to one candidate or the other. If you've ever looked at one of these "blue state, red state maps, you've no doubt noticed that the vast majority of democratic  support comes from a handful of states in the northeast and on the west coast. Places with large population centers like New York city, Los Angeles and then there is Illinois with Chicago. It's a sweeping generalization to say this, yet still true, that those who live in those areas have a whole different view of life, different values, different everything than those in the majority of the nations states. So if you live in one of these key states and you stay at home and don't vote on election day, you are allowing those with different values than you have to IMPOSE those values upon you, the ones who feed them, the ones who clothe them. Does that make any sense to you? Do you like it that those in New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago will be the people who determine how you and years of your children will live and what the country will be like for them?

I've been in the real estate business buying and selling homes since 1993. I saw a little blurb today that said that there are more empty homes than there are homeless people in the United States. I did a little research and the best I can tell that is true. Imagine that. Think about that. There are more homes without owners than there are people that can afford to buy them. 9 years ago there MIGHT have been one foreclosure listing in our paper a week here in this county of about 100,000 people. Usually it was from someone who couldn't pay because they were in jail or had something catastrophic happening to them. In 2003 George Busch enacted some a tariff on imported steel that caused lots of companies here to go out of business. Over 200 actually in our part of the state. Many jobs were lost, including mine when my company moved operations to the Philippines. That tariff was purely political because it was intended to prop up the steel industry in OH and PA because those are important states to win in order to win a presidential election. States like this state, GA, aren't because he knew he would get the vote here no matter what. Long story short, foreclosure listings began to creep up into the paper on a weekly basis. In 2008 it ballooned and all those people the banks gave loans that they never should have began to lose their homes. That was over and done in about a year. This coming Thursday in my local paper there will be 50 to 60 foreclosure listings. It's been like that for about 3 years now. And I understand that the banks are holding off as many as they can until this election is over and then there will be a deluge of them. These are not people who shouldn't have gotten a loan or dead beats. These are people that have been paying on their homes for 10 or 15 years, have lost their jobs and either don't have one at all or have one that pays half of what they were making and they simply can't make ends meet. Not only have all these people lost their homes, if by some miracle they are able to get back on their feet it will be YEARS before they can buy a home because now, through no fault of their own, they  have bad credit. The last home I sold had 8 sales contracts on it before someone could actually get the money to buy it. The banks regulations have swung back the other way almost to the place that the only way to get a loan would be if you don't need one. There is no shortage of people who want to buy homes. There is a BIG shortage of people who CANNOT afford a home or cannot qualify for a loan to get one. There is no "Housing Crisis" in this country. There is a JOBS crisis.

As an American you do not have a right to own a home. You don't have the right to have a good paying job or a job at all for that matter. But we DO have the right to govern ourselves with policies that promote an environment that produces a job for everyone that wants one and that pay enough that we can buy a home. Discretionary spending is what runs the economy. You just having enough money to eat ramen noodles and squeek buy to pay your light bill and rent doesn't put anyone to work either providing a service or making something. It takes "extra" money that you spend to do that. Until we have LOTS, MILLIONS of jobs that pay enough for more people to have "extra" money to spend this economy will continue to circle the drain. I hear Republicans all the time refer to the fact that 51% of all Americans pay no income taxes. Well, the tax code hasn't changed lately for lower and middle incomes. What has changed is that 51% of all people in the US now don't have a job that pays enough to force them to pay taxes. How sad is that? And how stupid is it to think that raising taxes on those that already do pay them will somehow magically make those that pay none suddenly have a good enough job so that they can pay taxes?

Recently I read that the unemployment rate in SD is like less than 2%. All those are probably on reservations. The agriculture economy is booming. Every little implement dealer and machine shop and elevator is going as hard as they can go in support of farming. If it weren't for fuel prices, which have doubled since this President took office btw, people in places that have an ag based economy wouldn't even know there was a bad economy. I had a very well known cattlemen friend in IA call me this summer to get a job reference for someone and he asked me how the real estate was going. I told him it sucked and his answer was "I thought they had all of that straightened out. That's what I hear on the news, everything is better." This is someone you would know, He isn't a dumb guy. He's a smart guy. He's a reasonably worldly guy that should know. Real unemployment here is over 20%.

The administrations handling of the recent terrorist attack in Libya that cost the lives of 4 Americans including the ambassador has been criminal. Like steel tariffs of George Busch, this administration handled this the way they did for purely political purposes. They want you to think that since Bin Laden was killed all is well. No more "War on Terror." Actually, I guess they never acknowledged that we were in a war with these people. So in order to make that appear to be the case, no extra protection was given to the embassies across the world because if it's over we don't need to protect them, right? Nothing to be afraid of, I got him, so its over, we are all safe now  ::) So when something happened, they went into cover up mode and you see what has now happened. 4 more good men lost their life because of politics. And now they are covering it up, again, because of politics. Did you know that since the day the Treaty of Paris was signed  (Look it up if you don't know what that is and you should be ashamed), that VERY day,   Muslim terrorists have sought to attack us? And always will.   This administrations foreign policy has been more than a failure. Apologizing to the world for us being Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts a war with Iraq just before the election as cover for this latest flub up.

Long gone are the days when John F Kennedy asked Americans to "ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." and people actually took it to heart. Today it's what are you going to do for me? What can you give me? Last week France announced that their highest tax income tax bracket would be 75%. Would you enjoy living in a country that you had to work 3/4 of your time for the federal government? What if the provencial tax were 10% more? It crosses few peoples minds that this country could ever be different than the way we know it today, that we would lose our right to free speech, that America would be just another country on the earth, that you can own land, that you have the right to pursue a career of your choosing.  If the path that we are on for the last10 years continues, within three generations American as we know it will no longer exist.

Feel free to comment how ever you like. I'll not debate you. I'll not answer your posts, but just look at the picture below here and tell me that if the current people in charge of our government proclaim this as a drought area, are they the ones you want handling your money and influencing your way of life. Of course it's unknown if the opposition would do better. But it's easy for me to see that the ones that are in charge now are no less than incompetent and quite possibly intentionally sabatoging the very fiber of the country. They need to go before it is too late. If you live in one of these crucial states that I mentioned I am asking you to take the election seriously, to take the responsibility of being an American seriously and get your head out of the sand and see what is going on around you. I am asking you not to take the future of the country for granted.

 

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FriedgesCharolais

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Decorah, IA
I would like to hear from some of the grain farmers in your area whether they think you should be in a drought area or not because grass will grow (and grow quite a bit) as soon as it gets rain, corn and soybeans on the other hand are not quite as fortunate they need a fair amount of rain during the whole growing season in order to put a good ear or pod on.
 

ruhtram

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Iowa
FriedgesCharolais said:
I would like to hear from some of the grain farmers in your area whether they think you should be in a drought area or not because grass will grow (and grow quite a bit) as soon as it gets rain, corn and soybeans on the other hand are not quite as fortunate they need a fair amount of rain during the whole growing season in order to put a good ear or pod on.

True, good point
 

Part Timer

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Mendon,Ohio
Do you think Romney will care about how much grass you have. Greed on everybodies part is what is taking this country down. Maybe instead of the two parties fighting each other they should be working together to solve the problems. I say get rid of the parties and make the people we elect make decisions on their own and stand behind their decision(not just fallow their party). I personally don't want to vote for either of them.
 

flacowman

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I can tell you that I live in an area that has been declared drought 2 years in a row.  They have been 2 of the best grass years ever due to perfect timing of rain.  Peanut yields are expected to bust the records wide open, but corn was terrible this year for us.  Different crops need different things and yes, grass is one of the best utilizers of opportune rainfall.
 

oakview

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We have experienced a serious moisture shortage in central Iowa for over a year.  I don't know whether we are in a "government declared disaster area", but it is a serious situation.  Our corn and bean yields are far exceeding expectations, though.  It is hard to believe what they're doing.  150-170 bushels of corn at $8/bu. is quite a return.  However, our grass is an entirely different matter.  Our grass came early and quit due to lack of rainfall.  The cows have been begging for something green for several months.  I've gone through 2 months supply of hay trying to suppelment the grass.  The government mercifully allowed us to cut CRP acres, although only half of it for a fee.  Strange that you could cut the entire field for weed control, but only half of it if you wanted to bale it.  We finally had a good rain about 4 weeks ago, so the grass turned green, but we haven't had rain since and it has that sickly brown tint to it again.  In our area, the grasses take a lot of rain to stay green and grow.  Crop genetics seem to allow them to manage moisture strees much better than our grasses.  The large creek that runs through our pasture quit running in June.  It is the lowest it has been since 1977.  We had a total crop failure that year, our best beans made 6 bushels/acre and we harvested no corn.  The few puddles left in the creek will have to go up a foot to allow it to flow again.  Needless to say, the creek fences have required no maintenance this year.  It is very discouraging to listen to my grain farming neighbors talk about their bank accounts as they drive by in their new pickups or $400,000 combines while they wait for their government subsidy payment to arrive later this month.  Meanwhile, I carry $4 buckets of corn to my calves, feed $100 bales of hay because there is no grass, and supplement the poor quality roughage with protein tubs that have tripled in price.  Other than that, life is good!
 

nate53

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North East, Missouri
Please correct me if I'm wrong but corn, soybean farmers have not been collecting much of any subsides over the past few years.  Why you ask because of prices  have been high(because of ethanol, exports, domestic demand).  Crop insurance is heavily subsidized which in bad years like this one farmers reap a benefit (some farms are making more money this year than they do on a good year- why because of price and the safety net which is crop insurance).  The past several months it has been popular for politicians to be saying grain farmers need drought aid (this is purely political or ignorance?), grain farmers do not need any drought aid this year if they had insurance (which most do and it is totally idiotic to bail the ones out that did not buy it).  Livestock producers are the ones hurting in some areas and if any farmer needs assistance it would be them (but once again not all of them do).  

A lot of the big farmers (we are not one) lease equipment - they don't own much of anything they use.  Farmers will go out and borrow money to buy or lease something just to get out of paying as much in taxes.  

The ethanol subsidy ended in Jan. 2012.  There is still the RFS which is not a subsidy but merely preferential treatment (guaranteed market) for the renewable fuel industry.  Everybody also seems to forget about all the byproducts of the ethanol and other renewables industry that livestock eat and are used for multiple other things.  I am pro ethanol (if you can't tell ;)) , but I also believe that it would be idiotic to build any more corn ethanol plants in the forseeable future.  

Everything is high, a 50lb bag of seed corn $300.00, cash rents $$$, buying land $$$$$$$$, machinery $$$$$$, labor $$$$$, chemical, fuel, life, etc. $$$$,

JMO


I wish we could blame everything on Obama but it is not entirely his fault and all of us are not blameless.  But just the same he needs to be replaced.
 

oakview

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FSA emails went out today notifying grain producers that their DCP (Direct Counter-Cyclical Payment) would be processed and appear in their accounts next week.  I would call what is sent from the government into a designated producer's account a subsidy of some sort.  I'm not sure I would approve of more government involvement in cattle production.  Several years ago there was a bill introduced into the Iowa legislature that would prohibit all cattle from being within 100 feet, I believe, of any stream or other body of water.  Farm advocate groups, including Farm Bureau, led the battle against approval of this bill.  I was opposed from a discrimination standpoint.  The hundreds of DNR protected deer that crap in our creek would be allowed to continue "dumping", but my cattle would have to "dump" elsewhere.  An obvious violation of the equal opportunity under the law clause.  Just to be on the safe side, though, I have strategically placed "cow pie dumping area" signs around the pasture. 
 

GONEWEST

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Posted by: flacowman
Insert Quote
I can tell you that I live in an area that has been declared drought 2 years in a row.  They have been 2 of the best grass years ever due to perfect timing of rain.  Peanut yields are expected to bust the records wide open, but corn was terrible this year for us.  Different crops need different things and yes, grass is one of the best utilizers of opportune rainfall.

Quote from: FriedgesCharolais on October 01, 2012, 10:14:25 PM
I would like to hear from some of the grain farmers in your area whether they think you should be in a drought area or not because grass will grow (and grow quite a bit) as soon as it gets rain, corn and soybeans on the other hand are not quite as fortunate they need a fair amount of rain during the whole growing season in order to put a good ear or pod on.

True, good point
Posted on: October 01, 2012, 10:14:25 PM
Posted by: FriedgesCharolais
Insert Quote
I would like to hear from some of the grain farmers in your area whether they think you should be in a drought area or not because grass will grow (and grow quite a bit) as soon as it gets rain, corn and soybeans on the other hand are not quite as fortunate they need a fair amount of rain during the whole growing season in order to put a good ear or pod on.



Well......I guess the grass here will be head high tomorrow since Sunday night and Monday we had 3". The average for October is 3" going back to 1893 according to the local newspaper this morning. We have had over 44" of rain this year. 44'' of rain does not indicate a drought no matter what. Annual rainfall around 50" average. If it didn't rain the rest of the year, it wouldn't be drought conditions. If you were short 6" in South Dakota where you get 20 -25" a year, it'd be a drought. You cannot have a drought with 44" of rain in a year. Not here. 44" of rain would grow rocks, not to mention corn. And HERE is where the drought was designated. HERE was the point to the story. I wouldn't be fair to quote names of these people but here are a couple of quotes from local government employees (otherwise known as rocket surgeons) that appeared in the news article today. It's as close as I could get to what the grain farmers in the area would say about the situation. "director of the (local) U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Farm Service Agency  said that rainfall across the region has been spotty all year.

The corn crop  was fair to good in X estimation.

“The other crops are looking pretty well,” X said, “We’re going to have a pretty good cotton crop and pretty good soybean crop. I don’t know what kind of yields yet but they’re looking really good, what I’ve seen.”

County Extension Director Y said the weather has been more adverse than ever before for farmers.

“We had a quicker start in the spring. It got warm earlier. Then we had a little cool spell, then we had a very hot spell, then a dry spell,”  

I don't think a more profound statement has ever been made..............spring came. It was warm. Then it was cool. Then it was hot, then it was dry. WOW, imagine that. Not like it doesn't come that way every year. He's a horse guy.

You can time your bitty bits of rain as well as you want. You can't grow grass like this without LOTS of water. 44" of water in 10 mos is NOT a drought.



 

GONEWEST

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oakview said:
We have experienced a serious moisture shortage in central Iowa for over a year.  I don't know whether we are in a "government declared disaster area", but it is a serious situation.  Our corn and bean yields are far exceeding expectations, though.  It is hard to believe what they're doing.  150-170 bushels of corn at $8/bu. is quite a return.  However, our grass is an entirely different matter.  Our grass came early and quit due to lack of rainfall.  The cows have been begging for something green for several months.  I've gone through 2 months supply of hay trying to suppelment the grass.  The government mercifully allowed us to cut CRP acres, although only half of it for a fee.  Strange that you could cut the entire field for weed control, but only half of it if you wanted to bale it.  We finally had a good rain about 4 weeks ago, so the grass turned green, but we haven't had rain since and it has that sickly brown tint to it again.  In our area, the grasses take a lot of rain to stay green and grow.  Crop genetics seem to allow them to manage moisture strees much better than our grasses.  The large creek that runs through our pasture quit running in June.  It is the lowest it has been since 1977.  We had a total crop failure that year, our best beans made 6 bushels/acre and we harvested no corn.  The few puddles left in the creek will have to go up a foot to allow it to flow again.  Needless to say, the creek fences have required no maintenance this year.  It is very discouraging to listen to my grain farming neighbors talk about their bank accounts as they drive by in their new pickups or $400,000 combines while they wait for their government subsidy payment to arrive later this month.  Meanwhile, I carry $4 buckets of corn to my calves, feed $100 bales of hay because there is no grass, and supplement the poor quality roughage with protein tubs that have tripled in price.  Other than that, life is good!

See you actually live in an area that could actually use some assistance. I am not for not helping people that need it. I am instead tired of the government wasting my tax dollars when I KNOW that SOON they will be asking for much more because of the 16 trillion dollar debt that has to be paid somehow.

The only problem I have is this  " Meanwhile, I carry $4 buckets of corn to my calves, feed $100 bales of hay because there is no grass, and supplement the poor quality roughage with protein tubs that have tripled in price.  Other than that, life is good!"

Most of my customers and people I know can't afford $100 bales of hay and a $4 bucket of corn, translated to a $17 a bag show feed. They can't buy my calves because where they had three now they buy one. Because I sold one instead of three I pay 1/3 the amount of taxes that goes to subsidize the Ethanol industry and pay down this debt. But for you, life is good and so it must be for everyone else. I think that's how most people think and vote. If it's good for me, it's gotta be good for everyone else. 51% of people in this country do not make enough to pay ANY income tax. It's not good for MOST people. I know it is good for people in places that have an ag based economy. But that's not most people.

And again. I can't see any other reason that people in IA would vote for Obama except that they know that in a Republican controlled environment, these subsidies, this legal taking of my money and putting it into the pockets of grain farmers, this re distribution of wealth, would stop. It will get to the point and it has for me, that no one will  have anymore wealth to put in their pockets.
 

chambero

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We like to point fingers at city dwellers, welfare moms, illegal immigrants, etc but in reality our national deficit problem is due to ALL OF US.  We all want access to social security and medicare, but statistically hardly any of us have paid in anywhere close to what we or our family members will take out.  We think agriculture gives the country a lot of "bang for the buck" for the amount of money paid in via various subsidies, but people in other programs think the exact same thing.

The reality is there is no good solution.  We are very naive to think any of us can figure out the answers individually, but my two cents:

Hardly any of us pay too much in taxes.  The problem as quoted by Gonewest and others is that too many people pay no taxes.  I'll never understand why we just don't have a national sales tax.

For a long time, corn and other crops were way too cheap.  Creating more demand was a good thing initially, but people figured out how to game the system and now it has gone way too far.  All hell will break loose when this really starts affecting prices for basic food stuffs in the grocery store.

Honestly, drought subsidies related to grazing are bad in the long run for those of us that try to carefully manage and not overgraze our land.  Farmers/ranchers are guilty of oversupply and thinking that everyone should get the same price for animals/crops regardless of quality.  It would help serious producers in a lot of ways if the half-*** ranchers are pushed out of the business.

 

GONEWEST

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nate53 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong but corn, soybean farmers have not been collecting much of any subsides over the past few years.  Why you ask because of prices  have been high(because of ethanol, exports, domestic demand).  Crop insurance is heavily subsidized which in bad years like this one farmers reap a benefit (some farms are making more money this year than they do on a good year- why because of price and the safety net which is crop insurance).  The past several months it has been popular for politicians to be saying grain farmers need drought aid (this is purely political or ignorance?), grain farmers do not need any drought aid this year if they had insurance (which most do and it is totally idiotic to bail the ones out that did not buy it).  Livestock producers are the ones hurting in some areas and if any farmer needs assistance it would be them (but once again not all of them do).  

A lot of the big farmers (we are not one) lease equipment - they don't own much of anything they use.  Farmers will go out and borrow money to buy or lease something just to get out of paying as much in taxes.  

The ethanol subsidy ended in Jan. 2012.  There is still the RFS which is not a subsidy but merely preferential treatment (guaranteed market) for the renewable fuel industry.  Everybody also seems to forget about all the byproducts of the ethanol and other renewables industry that livestock eat and are used for multiple other things.  I am pro ethanol (if you can't tell ;)) , but I also believe that it would be idiotic to build any more corn ethanol plants in the forseeable future.  

Everything is high, a 50lb bag of seed corn $300.00, cash rents $$$, buying land $$$$$$$$, machinery $$$$$$, labor $$$$$, chemical, fuel, life, etc. $$$$,

JMO


I wish we could blame everything on Obama but it is not entirely his fault and all of us are not blameless.  But just the same he needs to be replaced.

Always happy to correct those that are wrong...................that's a joke.

However, you sound pretty wrong just from your own statements. Any product with an artificial market, one that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand, is subsidized. There is zero demand for Ethanol. ZERO no one would buy it if it had to stand on its own. It costs more to make than gasoline and its less efficient. The argument that by products can be used for livestock feed is a very, very poor one because if the corn weren't going for Ethanol IT could be fed to livestock at a price less than the by product is currently. The absolute DUMBEST thing anyone could ever do is to burn their food for energy. There is not one smart or good thing about Ethanol. Except for those relatively few individuals fortunate to have million dollar corn crops each year because of it. It would only take about 800 acres to do that.

And your deal about everything is high? Seed corn is high because corn is high and they CAN price it that way. Why is rent and land high? Because there is demand for it. Why is there demand for it? Because the corn price is artificially inflated to the point it is still profitable to pay those prices. Machinery again is high due to demand. Take away all this artificial demand caused by Ethanol and the prices on all that stuff go back to a normal level. As for Labor being high, labor is CHEAP. If you are hiring someone at $15 an hour it might seem high to you. But at 40 hours a week thats $400 take home pay. What does a man with a wife and a kid do with $400 a week. Not much except survive. Maybe.  He certainly doesn't spend any money to drive the economy. Yet there are thousands here that would kill for a $15 an hour job.

Now these wind turbines might be as stupid, again except for the owners of the land they sit on. Then this Solendra couldn't even work with a $500 million government loan. Yet this administration won't allow this pipeline to be built that would put LOTS of people to work with good paying jobs that can fuel the economy. Why? Because they want to FORCE you to use what they see as better energy sources. But "better" really means they want to funnel TONS of money to their buddies and cronies. There is no concern for energy independence or the economy. Again its about re distribution of wealth. In this case it's your money to their pockets.  Why do you think they have allowed gas prices to double without since he took office? Why do you think that he tried to get Cap and Trade passed? In order to make your electricity from coal powered power plants so high you can't afford to turn your lights on. Who makes the cast majority of wind turbines? GE. Who owns NBC, otherwise known as the Obama Network? GE. Who is the Presidents "Job Czar" The CEO of GE. Can you people not see this????????????????

 

oakview

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Perhaps I should have clarified myself.  When I said "Other than that, life is good!" regarding the high priced corn, etc.,  I was being very, very sarcastic.  The high cost of feed is killing me.  I either pay it or sell the cattle.  The corn buckets I carry are to the calves I feed out for our family, friends, and neighbors' freezers.  If I'd have known that the steers I am now selling for 1.90/lb, carcass weight, were going to cost so much to feed, I'd have sold more of them as feeders.  Believe me, the feedlot steers don't get any show feed.  I've been told it takes 100 bushels of corn to feed out a steer.  Let's see.  $800 for corn, a 600 pound calf might cost $800 today, probably more.  Does it make sense to feed out a steer and sell it for 1,450 when just the corn and cost of the animal is $1,600?  I know some of you can feed them cheaper, or buy them for less money, etc.  I'm just pointing out that I don't think feeding cattle is a get rich quick program right now.  Maybe cattlemen are just a little too much like Chicago Cubs fans.  We'll get 'em next year!  All kidding aside, I do hope the experts are correct when they say better times are on the way.

FYI  I am not in any way, shape, or form an Obama supporter.  I am, though, very equal opportunity when it comes to politics.  I don't like any of them.
 

GONEWEST

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chambero said:
We like to point fingers at city dwellers, welfare moms, illegal immigrants, etc but in reality our national deficit problem is due to ALL OF US.  We all want access to social security and medicare, but statistically hardly any of us have paid in anywhere close to what we or our family members will take out.  We think agriculture gives the country a lot of "bang for the buck" for the amount of money paid in via various subsidies, but people in other programs think the exact same thing.

The reality is there is no good solution.  We are very naive to think any of us can figure out the answers individually, but my two cents:

Hardly any of us pay too much in taxes.  The problem as quoted by Gonewest and others is that too many people pay no taxes.  I'll never understand why we just don't have a national sales tax.

For a long time, corn and other crops were way too cheap.  Creating more demand was a good thing initially, but people figured out how to game the system and now it has gone way too far.  All hell will break loose when this really starts affecting prices for basic food stuffs in the grocery store.

Honestly, drought subsidies related to grazing are bad in the long run for those of us that try to carefully manage and not overgraze our land.  Farmers/ranchers are guilty of oversupply and thinking that everyone should get the same price for animals/crops regardless of quality.  It would help serious producers in a lot of ways if the half-*** ranchers are pushed out of the business.


Robert,

I am just going to have to agree to disagree that few of us pay too much in taxes. As long as the government continues to waste my money on Ethanol subsidies, loose it through loans to people like Solendra, line the pockets of GE with it, buy $507 hammers at the Pentagon, get our sons and daughters killed and maimed over YEARS when what needs to be done could have been done in a month, pay our enemies like Pakistan billions of dollars each year while there is one hungry child in this country, one dime in taxes will be too much. Its the amount of spending that is too much, not that the amount of taxes is too little.

Again, I feel like people are so wrapped up in their daily lives that they don't know what goes on anywhere other than in their own little world. Just by the fact that 51% of the people pay no income tax should show you that if they were paying taxes on their income, they would have to not do something else, which means there would be even less money to run the economy. There are lots of people barely surviving. One out of 6 Americans lives in poverty. That's ridiculous, in my opinion. There are ALWAYS a very few who want nothing more than that, but the recent upswing in this is due to no jobs. Like I said, for the last 4 years there have been 50 to 60 home foreclosures a week in my county. It's not because a bunch of people suddenly decided to stop paying for their homes.

People need good paying jobs so that they CAN pay taxes. I would be for a flat rate that taxed every one the same. But not for any tax like a sales tax that would make the cost of goods higher than they already are which would slow consumer spending which is what the economy runs on.
 

GONEWEST

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GEORGIA
oakview said:
Perhaps I should have clarified myself.  When I said "Other than that, life is good!" regarding the high priced corn, etc.,  I was being very, very sarcastic.  The high cost of feed is killing me.  I either pay it or sell the cattle.  The corn buckets I carry are to the calves I feed out for our family, friends, and neighbors' freezers.  If I'd have known that the steers I am now selling for 1.90/lb, carcass weight, were going to cost so much to feed, I'd have sold more of them as feeders.  Believe me, the feedlot steers don't get any show feed.  I've been told it takes 100 bushels of corn to feed out a steer.  Let's see.  $800 for corn, a 600 pound calf might cost $800 today, probably more.  Does it make sense to feed out a steer and sell it for 1,450 when just the corn and cost of the animal is $1,600?  I know some of you can feed them cheaper, or buy them for less money, etc.  I'm just pointing out that I don't think feeding cattle is a get rich quick program right now.  Maybe cattlemen are just a little too much like Chicago Cubs fans.  We'll get 'em next year!  All kidding aside, I do hope the experts are correct when they say better times are on the way.

FYI  I am not in any way, shape, or form an Obama supporter.  I am, though, very equal opportunity when it comes to politics.  I don't like any of them.

I am with you buddy, I don't like any of them. I noted in my first post that George Bush directly lost over 5000 jobs in our area due to the politics of getting re elected.
 

GONEWEST

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In other news, this just in:

The House Oversight Committee has just reported that over 50 requests for added security from diplomats in Libya had been turned down since in the last few months. Why? Because to beef up security would give the appearance that there was actually the threat of another terrorist attack on Americans.
Obama wants you to believe that since Bin Laden was killed all is well and now we can all just hug and get along. Hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya. He has saved us from all danger and now everyone likes us. Its the same reason he did his dead level best to say this attack was because of some youtube movie that no one ever even knew about. This guy is not only ruining our country here but also abroad. He has shown that is is more important to do what ever it takes to get elected than to protect the lives of our own diplomats.
Just as George Busch showed it was more important to get elected than to shut down factories and loose 5000 jobs here in the process. We should be more proactive in our government. We have had it so good for so long that we have been lulled into a false sense of security while the people we have elected (or actually allowed to be elected because we weren't involved at all) and their bureaucrats have ever increasing control of our way of life.
 

nkotb

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Quinter, KS
Always happy to correct those that are wrong...................that's a joke.

However, you sound pretty wrong just from your own statements. Any product with an artificial market, one that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand, is subsidized. There is zero demand for Ethanol. ZERO no one would buy it if it had to stand on its own. It costs more to make than gasoline and its less efficient. The argument that by products can be used for livestock feed is a very, very poor one because if the corn weren't going for Ethanol IT could be fed to livestock at a price less than the by product is currently. The absolute DUMBEST thing anyone could ever do is to burn their food for energy. There is not one smart or good thing about Ethanol. Except for those relatively few individuals fortunate to have million dollar corn crops each year because of it. It would only take about 800 acres to do that.

And your deal about everything is high? Seed corn is high because corn is high and they CAN price it that way. Why is rent and land high? Because there is demand for it. Why is there demand for it? Because the corn price is artificially inflated to the point it is still profitable to pay those prices. Machinery again is high due to demand. Take away all this artificial demand caused by Ethanol and the prices on all that stuff go back to a normal level. As for Labor being high, labor is CHEAP. If you are hiring someone at $15 an hour it might seem high to you. But at 40 hours a week thats $400 take home pay. What does a man with a wife and a kid do with $400 a week. Not much except survive. Maybe.  He certainly doesn't spend any money to drive the economy. Yet there are thousands here that would kill for a $15 an hour job.

Now these wind turbines might be as stupid, again except for the owners of the land they sit on. Then this Solendra couldn't even work with a $500 million government loan. Yet this administration won't allow this pipeline to be built that would put LOTS of people to work with good paying jobs that can fuel the economy. Why? Because they want to FORCE you to use what they see as better energy sources. But "better" really means they want to funnel TONS of money to their buddies and cronies. There is no concern for energy independence or the economy. Again its about re distribution of wealth. In this case it's your money to their pockets.  Why do you think they have allowed gas prices to double without since he took office? Why do you think that he tried to get Cap and Trade passed? In order to make your electricity from coal powered power plants so high you can't afford to turn your lights on. Who makes the cast majority of wind turbines? GE. Who owns NBC, otherwise known as the Obama Network? GE. Who is the Presidents "Job Czar" The CEO of GE. Can you people not see this????????????????


[/quote]

Lets assume for the sake of argument that your philosophies are true, I don't think some of them are, but lets assume.  What math are you using?  A $15/hr job, even at an 80% tax rate is $100/wk higher take home than you are figuring.  In Iowa, it may only take 800 acres to make $1,000,000 on corn, but in NWKS where we average around 85 bu/acre, it takes closer to 1600 acres.  Most of the growers around here this year will be lucky to get 35 bu/acre.  Right at the point that insurance will not cover, but it still won't cover production cost.  Also assuming that ethanol would disappear, and you would have the corn to feed instead of the Distillers Grains, where would all this corn go?  You would have 3 times the product to feed of corn vs. what you have for corn grain?  In our area, most prefer not to feed milo to stock, however, milo is a large percentage of what is grown in this area, as it is more drought tolerant than the corn.  35 bu corn this year vs 50 bu milo, where do you suggest this milo go?  Or do we just go back to planting corn and getting less yield?  The price of corn seed is high because it is stacked with a large variety of traits that produces higher yields/better feed.  Seed companies pour huge amounts of money into R&D, and they must recoup this somehow.  I will close by saying that I am most definitely not an Obama supporter, however, I'm not sure Romney is a better choice.  Just once in my life I would like to vote in an election where I am voting FOR someone rather than picking the less of the two jackasses.  
 

FriedgesCharolais

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241
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Decorah, IA
GONEWEST said:
Feel free to comment how ever you like. I'll not debate you. I'll not answer your posts, but just look at the picture below here and tell me that if the current people in charge of our government proclaim this as a drought area, are they the ones you want handling your money and influencing your way of life.

So much for that I guess.....
 

nate53

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Mar 26, 2011
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419
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North East, Missouri
Everybody was happy with $2 corn except the people growing it. 

nkotb makes a good point.  What would we do with all the corn?    How many land loan defaults would there be if suddenly the ethanol industry disappeared.  The ag real estate bubble would make the housing bubble look like a speck?  If the ethanol mandate disappeared the oil companies would still be using it, why because it is cheaper than gas (economics say to use it).  Crude prices are going to have to drop in relationship to corn prices to change this.

Why do we keep buying oil from countries that hate us (isn't this the worst subsidy of them all)?  Why do we send free money to countries that hate us, even though we don't have any?
How much food is thrown away every day in this country?
We waste way too much in this country.  The politicians waste and so do the people (myself included).  How many people complain about the starving or food prices and then don't clean up their plate?  How many complain about fuel prices but they drive a truck, suv, even though they never pull anything or go off pavement?  Electricity waste, mail waste, water waste, time waste, I could go on and on and on and on.







 

hamburgman

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Feb 9, 2010
Messages
569
Maybe you should tell your fellow southern neighbor states to stop being such moochers.  Cotton has historically been the most subsidized crop and the southern senators put a major stink up the last time the farm bill didn't bring enough money to the cotton economy.  The southern region gets on average 1.19 dollars back for each dollar in taxes sent in.  Midwest get .91 for each dollar, so we are at least pulling our weight.
 
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