Top 5 short red bulls for sale this year

[sue]

Sorry - I should have warned you about that ad

034 ... killed ...stray slug probably opening deer day, talked to RS on Friday.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I'm also reading the sale reports here and well, wow. 167,000 or whatever for 2 and a half heifers

They must have been smokin. O0

 

[sue]

What are the top 5,mainly red polled, bulls to sell this year. I spose jungels pen might have a couple. These bulls would have a bwt of 102# or less. Shorthorn.Thanks in advance.

One of the top 5 will be a SUll deal .... out of one of these two females: SBR Dora 342 or DRC 4108.
2 of the top 5 will sell privately .... one is in Kansas and the other just west of me alittle here in Mi
3rd will come out of PA... really he is a cool dude.
5th will be in the Whos your daddy sale, Canada .... solid red Bonanza or a solid red Buster decendent.....
Wait I see a Black Shorthorn moving into the 5th spot...

How did I do... I know at least one of my guesses is right.

 

[frostback]

Yes frostback. Sodhouse charlie 802 is a th carrier. I have 10 or more th carrier cows. Charlie had a 86# birth weight and is out of a super Sodhouse Dog Soldier daughter. He was kind of a mistake but he ended up as a bull. Not huge boned and not huge birth weight but someone may use him in the club calf deal. I may go to hell for it I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff...that is some pretty antedotal. It seems like the commercial-cow calf guy has a lot of different meanings. I am not talking about the guy with 3 teeth from west virginia. Most people in the top 5 cow states think this showring stuff is a joke. When I think of of a commercial cow calf guy I think in terms of someone who has 50 head of cows up to 12,000. These are college degreeded people who make a living with cows. To them th, and pha cattle are a joke used by hobbie people wanting to be play cowboy on weekends. I gauren-damn t they want no part of a genetic defect. People who dabble in all this genetic puke are a joke in these peoples eyes. I'm not saying there isn't money to be made in show cattle. People on here have a low opinion of the commercial people on here but it is they themselves that are a joke out side of the air conditioned show buildings.jmo This stuff doesn't go away by not keeping back carrier bulls the females keep the deal alive forever. That is such a stupid statement.

Just call a spade a spade. Unless the federal government "bans" defects they won't be eliminated. Just don't explain to me how defects are okay for the commercial industry.Defects are bad period. If they are a nessecary deal for club calves I guess thats okay. Alot of kids in the youth projects aren't going to be involved with with agriculture in the future. The normal family doesn't have a milk cow in their back yard like 100 years ago. I just hate to see kids taught that "terminal defects are good". They aren't good.

In my humble opinion...don't blame beavers. The club calf industry is joke with all this defect horse ch1t. The club calve industry deserves what it gets. Isn't it such a trustworthy union of souls?

I stand ashamed in the corner. I love club calf people. I love club calf people. I love calf people. I promise to no longer give a opinion of the club calf industry without first being screened by the pro propaganda divisionof the central planning committe of the peoples republic of steerplanet. I love the club calf people. I love club calf people. I promise not to judge the creative ethics of  the industry

I would wager that not one commercial cow calf guy in the top 50 cow-calf states would accept the use of genetic defect carriers. The club calf calf deal is in its own universe so I guess it doesn't matter. I just don't see how purebred cattle can allow defects. If they do it is an indicator of their worth as non halter cattle. Really books could be written on the defect deal. Starting with St. Louis Lad and ending who knows where. We have such wonderfull technology now we do have better controll of stuff now. This is an amazing time....a milestone


Just a few quotes from AJ about carriers from the last couple years. Wish I had high speed, damn dial up is too slow.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Yes frostback. Sodhouse charlie 802 is a th carrier. I have 10 or more th carrier cows. Charlie had a 86# birth weight and is out of a super Sodhouse Dog Soldier daughter. He was kind of a mistake but he ended up as a bull. Not huge boned and not huge birth weight but someone may use him in the club calf deal. I may go to hell for it I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff...that is some pretty antedotal. It seems like the commercial-cow calf guy has a lot of different meanings. I am not talking about the guy with 3 teeth from west virginia. Most people in the top 5 cow states think this showring stuff is a joke. When I think of of a commercial cow calf guy I think in terms of someone who has 50 head of cows up to 12,000. These are college degreeded people who make a living with cows. To them th, and pha cattle are a joke used by hobbie people wanting to be play cowboy on weekends. I gauren-damn t they want no part of a genetic defect. People who dabble in all this genetic puke are a joke in these peoples eyes. I'm not saying there isn't money to be made in show cattle. People on here have a low opinion of the commercial people on here but it is they themselves that are a joke out side of the air conditioned show buildings.jmo This stuff doesn't go away by not keeping back carrier bulls the females keep the deal alive forever. That is such a stupid statement.

Just call a spade a spade. Unless the federal government "bans" defects they won't be eliminated. Just don't explain to me how defects are okay for the commercial industry.Defects are bad period. If they are a nessecary deal for club calves I guess thats okay. Alot of kids in the youth projects aren't going to be involved with with agriculture in the future. The normal family doesn't have a milk cow in their back yard like 100 years ago. I just hate to see kids taught that "terminal defects are good". They aren't good.

In my humble opinion...don't blame beavers. The club calf industry is joke with all this defect horse ch1t. The club calve industry deserves what it gets. Isn't it such a trustworthy union of souls?

I stand ashamed in the corner. I love club calf people. I love club calf people. I love calf people. I promise to no longer give a opinion of the club calf industry without first being screened by the pro propaganda divisionof the central planning committe of the peoples republic of steerplanet. I love the club calf people. I love club calf people. I promise not to judge the creative ethics of  the industry

I would wager that not one commercial cow calf guy in the top 50 cow-calf states would accept the use of genetic defect carriers. The club calf calf deal is in its own universe so I guess it doesn't matter. I just don't see how purebred cattle can allow defects. If they do it is an indicator of their worth as non halter cattle. Really books could be written on the defect deal. Starting with St. Louis Lad and ending who knows where. We have such wonderfull technology now we do have better controll of stuff now. This is an amazing time....a milestone


Just a few quotes from AJ about carriers from the last couple years. Wish I had high speed, damn dial up is too slow.

Uh oh, I think aj is n a pickle. I would guess his TH carriers are descendants of a bull that was used before TH came down??  For aj to leave him a bull tells me he must be a good rip ???

 

[aj]

Frostback. I don't get your point.We tested 20 heifer calves this fall and had two th carriers if memory serves so we are almost rid of the th deal. We showed the bull. Found out he was a carrier. I have two guys that want to bid on him. He is what he is...nothing more nothing less. Do you think th cattle should be banned? From what i have learned club calf people accept the th deal.

 

[Doc]

I just think that it's pretty funny like frostback shows, that aj can be so anti club calf & TH carrier. Then all of a sudden when he is promoting a TH CARRIER bull then he sure is looking for the club calf guys to come out of the woodwork & not be ashamed by whom they are & stroke aj a check. Kinda ironic isn't it??!!!

 

[aj]

I guess it is kind of a gotcha deal. I need the bull to fill out my pen of 5. The entry's are in. Doc, do you want me to back out of the pen show? I don't know that the club calf people need my advice or your advice. I thought I was doing the right thing by being upfront about it.jmo

 

[aj]

A couple quotes kinda taken out of context. But good points. Good job Frostback.

 

[linnettejane]

so, buttin' in on this convo, because i love my state and proud of my heritage "I am not talking about the guy with 3 teeth from west virginia"  not cool dude 

Yes frostback. Sodhouse charlie 802 is a th carrier. I have 10 or more th carrier cows. Charlie had a 86# birth weight and is out of a super Sodhouse Dog Soldier daughter. He was kind of a mistake but he ended up as a bull. Not huge boned and not huge birth weight but someone may use him in the club calf deal. I may go to hell for it I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff...that is some pretty antedotal. It seems like the commercial-cow calf guy has a lot of different meanings. I am not talking about the guy with 3 teeth from west virginia. Most people in the top 5 cow states think this showring stuff is a joke. When I think of of a commercial cow calf guy I think in terms of someone who has 50 head of cows up to 12,000. These are college degreeded people who make a living with cows. To them th, and pha cattle are a joke used by hobbie people wanting to be play cowboy on weekends. I gauren-damn t they want no part of a genetic defect. People who dabble in all this genetic puke are a joke in these peoples eyes. I'm not saying there isn't money to be made in show cattle. People on here have a low opinion of the commercial people on here but it is they themselves that are a joke out side of the air conditioned show buildings.jmo This stuff doesn't go away by not keeping back carrier bulls the females keep the deal alive forever. That is such a stupid statement.

Just call a spade a spade. Unless the federal government "bans" defects they won't be eliminated. Just don't explain to me how defects are okay for the commercial industry.Defects are bad period. If they are a nessecary deal for club calves I guess thats okay. Alot of kids in the youth projects aren't going to be involved with with agriculture in the future. The normal family doesn't have a milk cow in their back yard like 100 years ago. I just hate to see kids taught that "terminal defects are good". They aren't good.

In my humble opinion...don't blame beavers. The club calf industry is joke with all this defect horse ch1t. The club calve industry deserves what it gets. Isn't it such a trustworthy union of souls?

I stand ashamed in the corner. I love club calf people. I love club calf people. I love calf people. I promise to no longer give a opinion of the club calf industry without first being screened by the pro propaganda divisionof the central planning committe of the peoples republic of steerplanet. I love the club calf people. I love club calf people. I promise not to judge the creative ethics of  the industry

I would wager that not one commercial cow calf guy in the top 50 cow-calf states would accept the use of genetic defect carriers. The club calf calf deal is in its own universe so I guess it doesn't matter. I just don't see how purebred cattle can allow defects. If they do it is an indicator of their worth as non halter cattle. Really books could be written on the defect deal. Starting with St. Louis Lad and ending who knows where. We have such wonderfull technology now we do have better controll of stuff now. This is an amazing time....a milestone


Just a few quotes from AJ about carriers from the last couple years. Wish I had high speed, damn dial up is too slow.

 

[frostback]

A couple quotes kinda taken out of context. But good points. Good job Frostback.

Out of context, would you like me to go back and so people could read all the threads. You were not talking about anything but how bad the TH thing could be for the commercial world and how you hate club calf people for propagating it. I was a little bored last night due to the football game being one sided but I could forgo TV tonight to do more research on what a hypocrite you are.
[size=10pt][size=10pt]DO AS I SAY...NOT AS I DO KIDS[/size][/size]

 

[jaimiediamond]

A couple quotes kinda taken out of context. But good points. Good job Frostback.

Out of context, would you like me to go back and so people could read all the threads. You were not talking about anything but how bad the TH thing could be for the commercial world and how you hate club calf people for propagating it. I was a little bored last night due to the football game being one sided but I could forgo TV tonight to do more research on what a hypocrite you are.
[size=10pt][size=10pt]DO AS I SAY...NOT AS I DO KIDS[/size][/size]

I took the time to creep aj's previous posts (yay high speed) and I find it actually quite shocking that he would have a TH carrier bull available after his strong feelings about TH.  Showing the bull in the pens doesn't bother me, but coming out and saying he will be available seems to be very pot calling the kettle black(ish). Obviously it is easier to take the moral high ground when money isn't involved. 

 

[Okotoks]

Yes frostback. Sodhouse charlie 802 is a th carrier. I have 10 or more th carrier cows. Charlie had a 86# birth weight and is out of a super Sodhouse Dog Soldier daughter. He was kind of a mistake but he ended up as a bull. Not huge boned and not huge birth weight but someone may use him in the club calf deal. I may go to hell for it I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff...that is some pretty antedotal. It seems like the commercial-cow calf guy has a lot of different meanings. I am not talking about the guy with 3 teeth from west virginia. Most people in the top 5 cow states think this showring stuff is a joke. When I think of of a commercial cow calf guy I think in terms of someone who has 50 head of cows up to 12,000. These are college degreeded people who make a living with cows. To them th, and pha cattle are a joke used by hobbie people wanting to be play cowboy on weekends. I gauren-damn t they want no part of a genetic defect. People who dabble in all this genetic puke are a joke in these peoples eyes. I'm not saying there isn't money to be made in show cattle. People on here have a low opinion of the commercial people on here but it is they themselves that are a joke out side of the air conditioned show buildings.jmo This stuff doesn't go away by not keeping back carrier bulls the females keep the deal alive forever. That is such a stupid statement.

Just call a spade a spade. Unless the federal government "bans" defects they won't be eliminated. Just don't explain to me how defects are okay for the commercial industry.Defects are bad period. If they are a nessecary deal for club calves I guess thats okay. Alot of kids in the youth projects aren't going to be involved with with agriculture in the future. The normal family doesn't have a milk cow in their back yard like 100 years ago. I just hate to see kids taught that "terminal defects are good". They aren't good.

In my humble opinion...don't blame beavers. The club calf industry is joke with all this defect horse ch1t. The club calve industry deserves what it gets. Isn't it such a trustworthy union of souls?

I stand ashamed in the corner. I love club calf people. I love club calf people. I love calf people. I promise to no longer give a opinion of the club calf industry without first being screened by the pro propaganda divisionof the central planning committe of the peoples republic of steerplanet. I love the club calf people. I love club calf people. I promise not to judge the creative ethics of  the industry

I would wager that not one commercial cow calf guy in the top 50 cow-calf states would accept the use of genetic defect carriers. The club calf calf deal is in its own universe so I guess it doesn't matter. I just don't see how purebred cattle can allow defects. If they do it is an indicator of their worth as non halter cattle. Really books could be written on the defect deal. Starting with St. Louis Lad and ending who knows where. We have such wonderfull technology now we do have better controll of stuff now. This is an amazing time....a milestone


Just a few quotes from AJ about carriers from the last couple years. Wish I had high speed, damn dial up is too slow.

Uh oh, I think aj is n a pickle. I would guess his TH carriers are descendants of a bull that was used before TH came down??  For aj to leave him a bull tells me he must be a good rip ???

That's the trouble the good one's are all good rips so if they are left as bulls they spread the defect, so 50% of their calves are carriers. AJ pointed out that we should be concerned about the commercial producer. He also pointed out JIT was not in touch with the commercial market. The best bull calf in the Sun Country bull test in my opinion last year was a TH carrier that the contributor withdrew from the sale because he was a carrier. That contributor was JIT! So I'm with Frostback on this, practice what you preach. Having TH carriers isn't fun, I know from experience, we've tested our entire herd and we test the calves out of carriers, we steer the carrier bulls and we hope for TH free replacements from the cows or use them as recipients.
AJ could take the carrier bull to make up his pen of 5, sell the none carriers and have some good steaks from the carrier for next barbeque season. If you are going to stand on a soap box and lecture other people be ready for the feed back when you show you were just enjoying poking at others with no real conviction. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Frankly I don't care what aj sells or how he runs his deal. Do I agree with selling a TH bull? NOPE. I have never had a TH animal. It would be burger if I did.
Its your money, how you spend it is up to you.

As far as being in touch with commercial breeders, to each their own. Some will think JIT is the man when it comes to this while others would side with AJ. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? AJ has ran his mouth and rubbed people wrong. I can assure you that both of those guys rub people the wrong way. I rub people the wrong way. Kudos to JIT for eliminating that bull from his sale.

 

[aj]

So what did evrybody decide on me selling Sodhouse Charlie 802? I can't sell him? I can't sell him to a commercial operation but I can a club calf guy. Or I can't sell him at all. What is the latest thinking on th? I thought about a year ago the club calf fraternity decided that the steers needed to be not only sired by th carriers but they needed to be carriers. I thought it was decided that chances were that no state fair steer winner in the last 10 years was th free. There was a discussion on here about figuring out a way to develop a bull that was homozygous th so ever calf would be th instead of every other calf on a clean female. I got the impression that the club calf deal gave up on cleaning up th. But like the Durham Red program required a clean test to get papers. I guess we could set up a vote deal where everybody on here could cast a vote. It doesn't matter to me whether I sell him as a bull or not. At least he didn't have a 120# birth weight. I'll do whatever you guys or frostaback want  me to do. Normally all th bulls at my place get cut. I sent two herd sires down the road right after the th deal was figured out.

 

[thunderdownunder]

No one's going to tell you what to do with your bull aj, that's your call.

You just need to decide whether it it morally right to be selling an animal which, if somebody else owned and was trying to sell, you would shout down. How strongly do you feel about the genetic defect issue and are you willing to stand by your statements?

Your call buddy.

 

[r.n.reed]

I heard that A.J.was going to hire Sugarland to do a concert by his stalls but he figured he'd get more traffic if he brought a TH bull.

 

[aj]

If I donated the proceeds of the bull to a charity. Would that make it morally ok? Like a home for the blind or the Shorthorn Assn juniors shabang deal. Or would that cross the line also. ;D

 

[aj]

All righty then......guess he's not for sale.

 

[jaimiediamond]

If I donated the proceeds of the bull to a charity. Would that make it morally ok? Like a home for the blind or the Shorthorn Assn juniors shabang deal. Or would that cross the line also. ;D

That is a very good idea it would not cross the moral line if you donated him to a charity butchered.  We had companies purchase our 4H steers and donate them to women's  shelters. The line you cross aj is preaching one way and acting another.