where is your breed headed?

[red]

I've been reading a lot lately about changes breed associations are making in their % programs. Recently the Maines changed their low & cattle name to Mainetainer. I personally was never thrilled about the new name. to me to maintain is just to keep status quo. I want to see improvement when you bred Maine into your herd.
I know the Simmies, Limmi's & a lot of other breed are also adding catchy names to the low % line. I believe the Short horns are also thinking of changing their appendix name to something else.
The Angus people talk about numbers being the forcus of everything & that other traits are being pushed aside. The Shorthorns are losing some of their maternal traits to compete in the show ring. The Maines have to overcome the stigma of PHA.
What are some of the issues you see facing your breed? what are your concerns? What puts you on the top & it needs to get out more?
It's snowy & cold here, would love some good feedback. I'm sure Show Hef, Gary Bob & others will provide some lively converations.
Red (cow)

 

[Show Heifer]

I would hate to let ya down Red!!
I have several breeds I would like to "discuss"!!
First the limis, a breed I hold dear as it is what I grew up with as a child. I can remember when a Limi had a "limi butt", and their heads were small compared to their body. They grew like wild, and although they never got "fat" like traditional cattle, they were tender due to the fact their muscle fibers were smaller than average.  And they were RED. And yes, some had attitudes, but those were sold IMMEDIATELY at the salebarn. Our limis were gentle, and were easy to handle. Now they are, well, not limis. Their legs are aweful, their heads look like angus, and no where are those wonderful Limi butts! They have lost their grow due to the fact they are chasing the hair and show ring. AARRGG!
Now on to Shorties: I don't even know where to start. First off, please shorties LEAVE THE BLACK ALONE. I love the red and white, or red or white. Also, I have noticed TWO breeds of shorties, one for the clubbie world and one for the pasture/performance world. And I guess that is ok (suffolk sheep did this same thing many years ago. Now there are two "registrys". The two different breeds HATE each other, but another topic!)  But I wonder if the shortie breed realizes how their breed comes off as a "show ring pretty breed" rather than the maternal breed it was. Heard a comment the other day  "Lets go down the shortie isle and see where all the money is!!".  Plus if they don't get TH and PHA under control, well, so much for using in a commercial herd.
Red Angus: This breed has made HUGE gains in the last 5 years or so. Not sure how, but.... I heard that the board was wanting to get rid of BW epd's. and go with CED only. Their arguement is that it doesn't matter how big the calf is, it just depends on how easy it comes out. HUH???? I understand their theory, but I can not see it working. Also, they like other breeds are chasing numbers and forgetting what their breed is about. I noticed in several catalogs that their birth weights and BW EPD's were getting huge. Could this be the reason they are wanting to get rid of that number??
I also don't like the 1A and B thing. What about just 100% red angus and then commercial red angus? (that is my grip with all breeds that allow registry to commercial cattle).  Red angus were a maternal, and now since they are chasing numbers only, they are losing their milking ability and fleshing ablility.
Black Angus: Marketing Geniuses!!! Not that I agree with all of it, but man can they manipulate the market with ads!! Again though, they are chasing carcass numbers, forgetting that cattle need to WALK.  I don't care how good the carcass is if the cattle can't walk in the pasture or to the feed bunk, it doesn't really matter does it??? And long gone is the true calving ease black angus.
Gelv: Again, chasing that black number thing. And while doing that, losing their maternal ability and correctness.

Of course these are generalizations, but I have found them to be true.
My overall grip: Breeds are forgetting what they are good at. Maybe trying to be angus due to their marketing?  Limi's were good at yield grade and milking and lean meat. Shorties were maternal milking breed that were great mommas.  Red Ang again were a maternal calving ease breed. Black Angus were the calving ease specialist, that marbled and graded. NOW THE BLACK ANGUS CAN NOT EVEN QUALIFY FOR THEIR OWN CAB PROGRAM!!   The percent of accepted carcasses is down about 8%-10%.

Maybe the breeds need to go back to what made them useful and popular in their beginning. And I don't mean give up progress, but use the breeds as they were designed to be used and not try to monopolize the cattle industry.

Hows  that for an opinion??

 

[red]

Show Hef, you never let me down!!1 I actually saw your post & went & got a fresh cup of coffee before I sat & read it. Great job & great insights!
I know that Gary Bob is suffering w/ a hurt finger ( he has offered to show me the finger) or he would have given us his views.
I seems that most breeds are going down 2 different roads. One maternal & the other clubbie or for the show ring. Both are equally fine but I hate to see good traits that have always been a breed's cornerstone lost because they are only breeding for one trait of the show ring.
I have always loved my Maines, love the disposition, the look & how easily they work into most programs. birth weights have always been an issue for me. Sometimes I have found that some bloodlines are almost too docile to be really good momma cows.
I question the leadership when dealing w/ PHA/TH. I also question not DNA testing bulls & donor cows. Look how many "who's your daddy?" have come up because of DNA tests? I hope the OH group puts the PHA/TH test results in the expo catalog & doesn't wimp out like IA did.
Red w/ an empty coffee cup :'(

 

[genes]

I'd get you a new cup if I had any.

It's hard for me to comment as I'm not involved in any one breed or with any registry.  But if the problem is a disjunct between the pasture and the show ring, then I think that is somewhat of a problem.  Now I get on the clubby side thins can be pretty extreme, but I hadn't realized it was going into other breeds.  I know the show ring does demand something fairly specific, and we all have those great maernal cows that are great producers, that we'd rather hide behind the barn when visitors come.  But if you can't take an animal out of the showring and have it do it's actual job well (so breeding, clavign etc for the cows and bulls, hanging a carass for the steers) then that is a problem.  Especially in the purebred circles as these are supposed to be seedstock producers for the commercial guys.

 

[red]

Well, I glad to see the Ohio Maine-Anjou''s listed the TH/PHA status of the cattle in their sale catalog! Good job & hats off to them! (clapping) (cow)

Red

 

[garybob]

hand is hurting, but I can't resist offering my opinion on bovine engineering. One thing I'll say is that nearly all breeds are guilty of trying to be all things to all people. What happened to breed character? Cow efficiency? Masculine Bulls and deep-bodied(not "butch", androgenous) females that are able to maintain themselves on GRASS. Some people have forgotten that cows were part of farms' plans to utilize grass and crop residues(stalks, not starch), and rerquire no care (pampring)  KaperCattle.com, and look at his Special of the Month. THAT is my idea of a Shorthorn Bull. So is Homedale Blizzard, Dunbeacon Venture, and Saskvalley Bonanza, Heck, I could go on and on.  Double/Fuzzy/goosey fronts can go to the devil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Horned Herefords should look like 335F,  Angus should NOT be like Stockman or Dateline, and Charolais need to look like their European ancestors, as should Gelbviehs, Maine-Anjous, Fleckvieh/Simms,Braunviehs,Limousins, and Pinzgauers.Nothing wrong with Salers or Tarentais cows, either.


Cattle are ruminants, not monogastrics. ROUGHage digesters weren't designed to be fed like pigs and chickens. Ethanol is going to be areality soon, and we need to start gearing down our herds to easier keeping stuff. If my newly amputated finger didn't hurt, I'd be more elaborate in my discussions, but you get the picture.

 

[red]

Thanks Gary Bob,
I award you with the klutz of the week award for cutting off part of your finger. Sorry no cash prizes are awarded! Yours won over my nephew having a weed eater drop on his head & getting 5 stitches.
I knew you & Show Hef wouldn't dissapoint me!
Red

 

[garybob]

Dearest Red,

I am not against the show ring. Heck, Double P Estelle R *X#######, and the FFA creed introduced me both to the seedstock industry and believing in myself. She was ahead of her  time. My county agent and a trip to Louisville opened up my eyes to the world beyond the Ozarks.I'd just like to see the Shorthorn breed expand beyond swapping nickels with each other. Trading money among ourselves with catttle raised in an atrificial environment.
HUmor me on this: Examine the breeder Links on Shorthorn Beef.con.au, and Shorthorn.com.ar, and Shorthorn.canada. Then, look at the type of bulls offered by the major AI Studs here in the USA. Compare, and then offer me your take on what you see. Maybe I am a dumb hillbilly, and I sure as crud don't wan't  wear out my welcome on this forum, BUT, can't you see, I am truly concerned about the future of a potentially powerhouse breed. I love the smell of shavings, manure, and the aura of an expo or small, local show, BELIEVE me. I'm just tired of getting docked at the 'yards and mocked at shows by true cattlemen.

Respectfully Submitted,

Gary Bob

 

[Joe Boy]

Gary Bob has some very good points.  Most of our cattle breeds have gravitated toward each other rather than maintaining their breed characteristics.  What I am breeding for in the Maines is a cow that will milk and has enough muscle that her calf will make me money at the sale barn or in selling bulls that are functionalble.  That means that they walk good, are not post legged, calve easy, milk good, gentle as a puppy, calves grow fast and will mature early, as well as easy fleshing with longevity.  I think the show industry does not always do these very things.  We want them pretty and fat but how much did it cost to get them fat and if they are not on a high energy/protein diet how long will they hold the finish.  Some breeds are too big, like the old Maines.  When I haul a calf to the sale barn, I want everyone there to know it is a good calf that will work in the feed yard or on the farm/ranch.

 

[genes]

I know it is a showring problem, not a breed problem, but you bring up a good point about the fat Joe.  I hate seeing heifers come through the showring so sloppy fat that they can barely walk.  That has got to be distaster for them as actual breeding animals.  I never had my heifers overfat because I didn't think it was worth it (and as a realist, I probably wasn't going to win Grand Champ anyway, so it really wasn't worth it).  Every now and again, I would get a judge that would actually reward that, which was kind of nice.

 

[red]

Gary Bob, you have some excellant points!  No problem on your views at all!
I am too concerned about the way the ring appeal is changing some of the breeds. Genes, I also hate to see these fat overconditioned heifers out there. Boy, are they asking for a train wreck when they try to breed them or get a live calf from them.
I haven't notice such a influence in the Maine breed but do know there are definite differences between the Shorthorn maternal cow & the show heifer. You are right that the cattle listed as typical breed standouts & what is being promotes are two different things!
Great discussions, thanks

Red