White Shorthorn Bulls

[NHR]

If your raising Shorthorns for commercial then your best off doing retained ownership through the feedlot because if the calf aint black then you get screwed!

 

[Doc]

TDU, I don't really recognize any of the pedigree other than "The Grove" & Vagabond. I just like to see on the pedigrees from down under whenever some US bulls like Cujo, Tribune, Grand Slam & others show up.

 

[frostback]

Well we purchased a solid white bull this year because of his genetics and all my buyers want whites and roans and all I have is mainly red cows with red calves this year. I could sell every roan that hits the ground. We did have one roan this year sired by Jake's Proud Jazz.

Must be wrong because the roan calves sell for more money down here....

maybe in a show calf market?  but in the "real" world...  take a roaner to the marketplace.. and you leave buck naked, and walking home.  They'll take your clothes, truck, trailor... and more so than not- they'll still send you a bill on the calf you just tried to sell!?

anyone disagree? 

Color is a showring fad, far more so than not.  I guess good cattle are good cattle.. but the United Reducers boys sure don't agree.

So why cant people breed for more than the commercial market. Is having more than one market in the breed a bad thing? Or our you just sour because you cant make it work in any of them?

 

[kfacres]

Well we purchased a solid white bull this year because of his genetics and all my buyers want whites and roans and all I have is mainly red cows with red calves this year. I could sell every roan that hits the ground. We did have one roan this year sired by Jake's Proud Jazz.

Must be wrong because the roan calves sell for more money down here....

maybe in a show calf market?  but in the "real" world...  take a roaner to the marketplace.. and you leave buck naked, and walking home.  They'll take your clothes, truck, trailor... and more so than not- they'll still send you a bill on the calf you just tried to sell!?

anyone disagree? 

Color is a showring fad, far more so than not.  I guess good cattle are good cattle.. but the United Reducers boys sure don't agree.

So why cant people breed for more than the commercial market. Is having more than one market in the breed a bad thing? Or our you just sour because you cant make it work in any of them?

our cows pay their way with extra to spare.. i bet that's far more than most herds do.

 

[thunderdownunder]

TDU, I don't really recognize any of the pedigree other than "The Grove" & Vagabond. I just like to see on the pedigrees from down under whenever some US bulls like Cujo, Tribune, Grand Slam & others show up.

The R65 cow on the dam's side is a Waukaru Prime Minister daughter, and TG Informant U255 is by another Prime Minister son, while Romance R55 (a prolific dam who's still breeding) is another PM daughter. BP Millenium T22 is by a great son of Stonelea Winchester

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I agree, retaining ownership to kill is the only way to determine if your cattle are really working for you. My problem is getting any carcass data back from the mom and pop packer that are around me. They act like its a hassle to weigh the steer let alone give you carcass data back. People should breed what ever they like to look at. How you sell them is your problem.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

2009 the USA had over 101 million cattle. In 2010 we had over 93 million. How many shorthorn bulls were sold? How many where white? How many were horned and 100 lb bw and white? They may be useful, but they have no demand. If you can sell them and find your niche.....I tip my cap to you.


Did anyone else read Patrick Walls article in this months Shorthorn Country?

 

[iowa]

Doc,

Lonny's bull is sired by Jake's Proud Jazz out of a Oakview 2 + 2 daughter and was bred by Dean Fieser in Kansas.

 

[Hilltop]

Here is a white bull that will be walking our pastures for a long time. ACC Genral 4U was bred by Okotoks and  is sired by Northern legend and his dam is sired by Ghostrider. She is nine and has as good a udder as any cow on our place.
I do believe that an auction mart could be considered the "REAL WORLD" and the last time we sold black calves our roans at the same sale outsold them by 2 1/2 cents a pound.
Are we using him for the showring?  No, but if his calves are good enough to go they will, whether they are roan or white.
His first bull calf born here will walk our pastures also this summer.

 

[kfacres]

Here is a white bull that will be walking our pastures for a long time. ACC Genral 4U was bred by Okotoks and  is sired by Northern legend and his dam is sired by Ghostrider. She is nine and has as good a udder as any cow on our place.
I do believe that an auction mart could be considered the "REAL WORLD" and the last time we sold black calves our roans at the same sale outsold them by 2 1/2 cents a pound.
Are we using him for the showring?  No, but if his calves are good enough to go they will, whether they are roan or white.
His first bull calf born here will walk our pastures also this summer.

As I think I heard mr Canada say many times... "Must be a Canada thing"... you won't find a single, and I quote.. SINGLE breeder south of the boarder say that... NOT ONE!  I GUARENTEE THAT.  that is if they are equal in quality.. but even then I'm not sure.?   I've seem some pretty sorry black beasts bring more than some pretty special looking roans in my days of watching.

 

[aj]

If you are shooting for an all red color.....Using a white bull is almost insane. In Canada and the showring cattle is might work. I do appreciate what herds like Lovings and Wakuru have done as far as the solid red color is concerned. It is hard to hit that all red target. I think captain obvious is a result of such selection. Spotted cattle and roans are very economically incorrect where I am. It seems like Canada and where I am are like different planets as far as color's are concerned.

 

[justintime]

If you are shooting for an all red color.....Using a white bull is almost insane. In Canada and the showring cattle is might work. I do appreciate what herds like Lovings and Wakuru have done as far as the solid red color is concerned. It is hard to hit that all red target. I think captain obvious is a result of such selection. Spotted cattle and roans are very economically incorrect where I am. It seems like Canada and where I am are like different planets as far as color's are concerned.

aj... that is exactly what some of us have been saying. There are some  very big differences between the American and Canadian marketplace and I guess I am just very thankful that some of the idiotic color discrimination of the past, here in Canada, seem to be fading away. There are still some old cattle buyers who carry very stupid prejustices but more and more are buying on the basis of quality of the animal rather than the color of it's hide.... which is how it should be. For an number of years, I was a licenced livestock dealer and I used to go to some of the markets and buy cattle. This was back in the day when smokey calves were discounted up to $.20 per pound and color was more important that it is now. I used to watch a large package of Hereford calves come into the ring, and a buyer would ask for one calf to be removed from the package because he did not have a featherneck or it maybe had some red around it's eye. These single calves usually sold for 5-10 cents/pound less . I am not saying that color is not important yet, as a set of black calves will make all the buyers pay attention, but they will not pay a premium for them unless they have the quality to go with the color. When I was buying cattle for our own feedlot, some of the best money I ever made in the feeding game was made in buying the off colors and some of the singles that were sorted off because their color was a bit different. We sold all our cattle on the rail so color was not of much importance.
When I heard that the Cargill plant ( the biggest packing plant in W Canada) had paid the largest premium ever paid on a set of 104 Shorthorn steers that came from one ranch, I phoned the head buyer of that Cargill plant. He told me that this premium had amounted to over $100 per head, which in the feeding business is amazing. I told this man, that I was going to write an article for the Breed magazine but he said he did not want to be quoted or even mentioned in the article, as his company had to be very careful not to publicly show any breed  preferences. Off the record, he said that they were very impressed with the carcass quality they were getting from Shorthorn and Shorthorn cross cattle. \He also said that they could not be seen as promoting this to the industry but that it was up the the Shorthorn breed to promote this fact. In the case of this set of Shorthorn steers it was also most fortunate that they were also fed in one of the largest feedlots in Western Canada. Not only did they get a big premium on the rail, but they were gained more weight on less pounds of feed than any other pen being fed at that time. I think it was this pen of Shorthorn steers that did more than anything else to start to change the color prejustices here in Canada. Word of this set of steers and what they had accompliushed swept through the feeding industry and cattle feeders started to pay attention to some of these cattle. I think this was the beginning of more acceptance for the roan color here in Canada. When a set of roan cattle walk in the sale ring, the buyers know they have some Shorthorn influence. When a pen of black cattle walk into the ring, they could be Shorthorn cross or most anything else from straight Angus to straight exotic.Shorthorn influence cattle that do not have quality still get discounted substantial amounts but so do black cattle that are poorer quality. That is the way it should be. The playing field here is just a bit leveler than what I see happening in the US

 

[Okotoks]

An interesting thing about this pen of steers is where they originated. They came from up west of the Peace River country. The cows ran in forestry pasture along the mountains in the summer and some would actually be lost to bears and other predators. The cows ran in hard conditions but did well. In the fall females were sometimes consigned to a fall sale in BC. If you bought one they always did well for their new owners because they had gone through both natural and ranch selection. Their bloodlines were a combination of dual purpose, irish, Hoyt, and Mandalong Australian influence on a western Canadian polled beef foundation.

 

[Shady Lane]

A few years ago I was offered a job to be a Cattle Manager for one of the largest feedlots in Canada, they feed 250,000 head per year. The cattle are almost exclusively slaughtered at a local Cargill plant.

During the interview processes I met with other managers of that company as well as owners etc. Of course we all got to talking about cattle and they were aware of my involvement in the Shorthorn breed and background, the CEO told me that the most money they have ever made feeding cattle was on Shorthorn steers because they had great performance, gained efficiently and were paid the largest carcass premiums they had ever recieved. They were wanting to know where they could find more Shorthorn cattle in large quantities.

Never once did they mention that they wanted Red Cattle, White Cattle or Roan Cattle.

It's been said that a cow is completely colour blind,

Cattlemen should be too.

  Select your cattle on their own merits, at the end of the day the colour of the hide does not matter.

 

[flacowman]

I don't play with shorties but as a Charolais breeder I like to see y'all liking your white bulls lol.  Around here marked calves will get stolen from you in the salebarn because the consensus is that they have longhorn in them.  Sold a calf that was a JPJ char with a bad temper, awesome calf but the temper killed me.  He went for 42 cents a pound while mi white calves sold for 1.20 to 1.45...

 

[oakview]

I wasn't going to mention anything about my new white bull until I had him long enough to see if he did what I hoped he would do, but now that the cat's out of the bag.....Like many on this board, there are certain cattle that I will not even consider just because of their background.  I have it in my head that I just want nothing to do with them.  I will say right up front that I am not a Proud Jazz fan and have been very quick to notice their shortcomings.  I will not run down anybody else's cattle and my hat is off to those that are selling their Proud Jazz offspring for more than I sell my calves for, I just don't want some of the traits that I perceive them to have in my herd.  I just finally had to look past my preconceived notions and decided that this white bull was pretty good.  He came highly recommended from a very good friend of mine.  His dam would be a great cow in anybody's herd, even if she's roan.  She's a daughter of Oakview 2 + 2, a bull I raised and sold to Dean Fieser who later sold him to Tony Shultz.  2+2 sired that good May heifer calf in the Revival sale last fall.  He's a Remember Me out of a Leader Plus cow, so he's got some different breeding than you find everyday.  If and when this bull does what I hope, I'll let you know.  I might even take a good picture of him when he's clean.  Speaking of preconceived notions, I read the comment about how bad it would be if he had Trump in him.  I will tell you that the Trump son I have used for 3 years (Trump X CF Equity Fool 88) is not what most of you who bad mouth Trump would blindly stereotype him as.  He's very moderate, big topped, good quartered, sound, heavy boned, stays in good shape, his calves have not been too large at birth, and the calves have some performance.  If you didn't know he was a Trump, he'd probably look good in most of your herds.  I hope my herd is filled with 40 of his daughters in a few years.  For those of you who like to show, ask Ance Cascio, C & A Shorthorns, in Mississippi, what he thinks. 

 

[rarebirdz]

If you are shooting for an all red color.....Using a white bull is almost insane. In Canada and the showring cattle is might work. I do appreciate what herds like Lovings and Wakuru have done as far as the solid red color is concerned. It is hard to hit that all red target. I think captain obvious is a result of such selection. Spotted cattle and roans are very economically incorrect where I am. It seems like Canada and where I am are like different planets as far as color's are concerned.

diferent planet is 1 way took at it, CO is a neat bull but he ain't the answer to every question.  the white bulls that started this thread and the bulls that were posted by other users are usful beef animals
Now correct me if I am wrong Shorthorns are red, red white marks, white or roan. 

 

[Toughie]

okotoks;  You never said if Kitty Clare's calf was a bull or heifer.  I really like the Clare that is here. Maybe a Prophecy out of Kitty Clare would be a good investment.  I can see a road trip to AB this summer.

 

[nate53]

Highest premium ever paid in Canada on the rail was over $100.  Just curious was this rescent or years ago?

 

[Okotoks]

Highest premium ever paid in Canada on the rail was over $100.  Just curious was this rescent or years ago?

This one was a few years ago but the premium was large, I'd have to look it up. More recently Eionmor Stock Farms has had several groups at the the top of the grid. Which brings us to Our newest INFOMERCIAL
The Eionmor West Country Bull Sale
Saturday April 9,2011
Will it rival the Who's Your Daddy Sale today? Awesome sale, another step on the way to getting Shorthorn bulls out to the commercial herds (clapping) <party> <beer>