Why show steers

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Cham2135

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When I was in high school I showed steers, brother heifers, and sister market heifers. That way we never competed in the same class. Now that I've graduated we still show one of each. Something about showing a steer lol
 

RyanChandler

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The majority of the time when a inexpensive Calf beats one of those 'high dollar ones' it's because of a dishonest valuation of the 'high dollar calf' from the beginning.

It's not like theres a bluebook for show calves I can pick up that will give a depiction of the exact features a calf worth $20,000 has- people who have the money to buy that type of calf trust 'the experts' within the industry to shoot them straight. As the results from any show will tell you, that isn't what always happens.
 

5PCC

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It seems to me that what you are asking is simply, "Why show club calves?"

The answer to both questions is the same:
*family fun
*learn character, responsibility, hard work, etc
*meet people, learn more about the beef industry and agriculture, travel a bit, etc

Some folks make money on it, some lose money on it, and the rest of us are in the middle somewhere.

Remember...basketball, baseball, and football camps are expensive too and the odds aren't that great that any one of our kids will be professional athletes. It also takes a lot of money to travel to all of those games and eat at the concession stand (unless you pack your dinner).
 

5PCC

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I don't like to pay too much for a heifer and definitely not a steer. We show our own calves when we can. But I will gladly pay $2 or $3 thousand for a family activity that
*all 5 of us can do together
*that teaches my kids the value of hard work, responsibility, and honesty
*that teaches my kids more about cattle, breeding, feeding, and agriculture
*and that keeps them away from drugs and other bad influences!
 

EastTnShower

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I am not looking at it as making money. I am looking at it from a standpoint were someone might not have the money for a 20k + steer. If that is what it takes to be competing why not spend that much on a heifer and keep and get some calves. That in my opinion is a good thing for a kid to see starting with her as a heifer and watching her as she grows then haves a calve that you could show if you wanted.

P.s I didn't mean for it sound like I was coming from wanting to make money standpoint. That is in NO way is what it is about for me. Showing is about so much more
 

chambero

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You don't have to spend that much money to compete - but "competing" is a broad category that doesn't have to result in 1st place.

Two reasons we steers over heifers:
1. I value good heifers as cows more than showing.  In my opinion, british heifers in particular have problems as cows if you feed them the way you need to in order to be competetive at large shows.
2.  Our shows in Tx pay enough that it is financially more viable spending money on steers instead of heifers.

Many kids are better off with steers because they dont have access to land to keep them longterm or they dont have time to mess with them when they go off to college.
 

DLD

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A lot of people seem to think that $20K, or even $10K steers are the rule, not the exception.
They aren't.  Yes, there are quite a few of 'em around.  Yes, they win sometimes - they lose sometimes too.  Sometimes they were over priced to begin with, sometimes they don't get fed, fit or shown to their potential.  Sometimes they just get beat by a better one that happened to not cost as much.  It happens, whether some people believe it or not. 

 

cowpoke

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Off the initial subject but quality doesn't always reflect in the purchase price.I say everytime I judge a show that if you are not having fun or learning something than exhibiting livestock isn't for you.It is usually a labor of love and people should be thankful for the opportunity.Its not about profit or loss but memories and when you get older like me it is good to have some to relive.
 

newguy

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A steer is what the beef industry is all about. Heifers are kept for the purpose of producing beef. So the steer is the ultimate representative for the beef industry. Showing cattle is a sport and a great sport at that.
 

RyanChandler

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DLD said:
A lot of people seem to think that $20K, or even $10K steers are the rule, not the exception.
They aren't. 

If you're talking about calves that just show up maybe so, but if you're talking about ones that win, well... that's not what Chambero suggested on page 1. 

Showing cattle is an exhibition, not a sport.
 

Duncraggan

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To precise and modify someone else's thoughts, the art is to find a good animal by yourself, not to bid top price at a hotshot breeder's sale!
Can't quite remember where I read/heard it, but it made absolute sense!
 

DLD

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-XBAR- said:
DLD said:
A lot of people seem to think that $20K, or even $10K steers are the rule, not the exception.
They aren't. 

If you're talking about calves that just show up maybe so, but if you're talking about ones that win, well... that's not what Chambero suggested on page 1. 

Showing cattle is an exhibition, not a sport.

If you're talking about the ones that win grand at the competitive majors, yes I'm sure that's true.  If you're talking about making the premium sale at those same shows, there are still $2500 (and cheaper) steers getting that done.  There are plenty of families out there that know how to feed and fit, and know how and where to find less expensive cattle to get that done.  They won't win majors, maybe not even their counties, but they can place in the upper end of their classes and put steers in premium sales - that's their goal, and they consider it a success when they get it done.  They mostly fly under the radar, and lots of the "big time" and wanna be's hardly realize they exist, but they do. 

 

RyanChandler

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I don't know, it'd be hard for me to give a concerted effort towards something I didn't think I had a chance of winning. I guess that's just me though- I play to win.
 

DLD

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I understand what you're saying, and I guess if having grand is the only thing that's gonna make you happy it makes sense.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of placings besides grand in those shows that a lot of people can be happy with. And I don't argue with what you and Chambero are saying about there being more $20K steers than there are classes for them to win - especially in Texas, where there are way more steers being shown, way more premium sale slots, and way more premium money to be had than anywhere else.  That's not taking away from any other state - I'm from Oklahoma and it's extremely competitive here too, as I know it is many other places as well.  But even in Texas, not every class winner cost $20K either - I sold a class winner in Houston this year for a small fraction of that.  I wouldn't say there are more $20K steers than there are classes to win at OYE, but there are some $20K+ and a lot of $10K plus but my daughter won a class with an $1800 one this year.

Chambero said that with those high dollar steers you're not only paying for the calf, but the service that goes with it.  I'd take that one step further and say you also buy into the name of the jocks and the breeders and the politics that goes with them.  Some people can't afford to or simply don't want to invest in those options - they'd rather just buy the calf and take it from there on their own.
 

jdew

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There isn't much, if any, money to be made showing steers. For most everyone that shows steers it's about the experience gained from showing and the money put into it is well worth it. I showed a $1500 steer that was champion Division 3 crossbred at the Iowa State Fair in '09 and the thrill of winning with something that you work so hard with everyday is unmatched. This doesn't happen often and maybe luck had something to do with it or it being one man's opinion on one day. Even with a steer that cheap, I can't say we made money after all expenses of showing for the year and buying show feed with fat cattle prices much lower than what they are today. But the things I learned from showing, meeting people, feeding, taking responsibility of an animal's life, etc is well worth the money put into showing steers.
 

chambero

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I've got responses for both XBAR and DLD so pick through this.

XBAR -

I'll use a small town Texas sports analogy.  Whether or its football or baseball, everyone says they want to win state.  Even if you really are good enough to have a chance, for the most part it's the same schools that have the best programs year in year out - sometimes due to some inherent advantages related to affluence, proximity to urban areas, etc.  When you are building a program, your "goal" is to win state; but as a coach - you are setting your kids up for failure if there isn't some intermediate goal to help keep your program and kids positive and headed in the right direction.

I forget which classification Pottsboro is now (I'm assuming 3A), but Pottsboro isn't going to run the Celina/Argyle/Prosper triumverate successfully in the playoffs every year. Those guys have the combination of funding/tradition/good coaches/pro athlete kids that make it really hard to do.  Not impossible, but hard.  You played baseball knowing you probably weren't going to win state, but that wasn't going to keep you from trying.

Showing steers is no different.  It is too much work and too expensive (even with "cheap" calves) to mess with if you aren't going to try to win.  I agree with you in that showing for "the experience" is BS if your kid is really serious about it.  Teaching your kids to accept futility is harmful.

You don't have to spend a dump truck full of money to compete at what I call a mid-level (by my definition having steers that can make sales at Texas majors more often than not) - but it's still not cheap.  I've never bought a $20,000+ steer.  But if I add up what I spend breeding my own, running around all over he** and back trying to find a good sleeper, + buying them - I frankly could put it all in one pile and do that - as could a bunch of people like DLD.  I hate adding it all up at tax time when were are doing our income tax for us and the kids as to how much we really do spend on it.  But some of us are hell bent and determined to do it our way - and there is a really good lesson for your kids doing it that way - akin to teaching them to build a business.

DLD -
As my family strives to get better and improve results each year, I'm figuring out that it's still a long ways from placing to "winning" at majors - particularly in our "crossbred" breeds in the medium weights and heavy weights.  That last little bit of difference in calf quality from placing calves to class winners is getting more narrow all the time - and more expensive all the time.  That quality difference is getting so small I'm finding it's actually turning my judging ability into being a limiting factor.  Hence why I say the prices are more about access to knowledge and skill than it is actual calf value.  You never stop learning and I'm finding I need to "buy" some access to that knowledge even to get the most out of my own calves.

This past weekend is a great example of why it's fun for my family.  We took 4 steers to their first show of the year, a pretty big show down in College Station.  3 we raised and 1 we bought.  Class sizes are around 5-10 head (two separate rings under two judges).  Our results were two firsts (medium wt Chi), three seconds (lt wt Angus, lt wt Chi), one third (med wt Maine), and a dead last (medium wt Maine).  Our calf we showed as medium wt Maine is a really good black calf that acted like a jackass in the ring for my oldest son and he got buried because of it in one of two rings.  For where he's at in his show career, he was much more upset about the last than he was happy about winning tougher classes with his other calf.  He had legitimate breed champion aspirations for both - one he got close but ran into the $$$ wall there were the heavyweight calves at this show and the other he didn't get his end of the deal taken care of and fell flat.  He was mad at himself and the judge, but didn't say a word to anyone about it but me, and then was over it by the time he got the glue out and calf washed.  Those experiences make him appreciate when he does "get it done".  Over the course of the day, my kids beat a bunch of calves - but were one "notch" below the $$$$ calves.  I try really hard to teach them to not accept losing, but at the same time being happy with successes they do have while figuring out what they need to get better at themselves.


DLD said:
I understand what you're saying, and I guess if having grand is the only thing that's gonna make you happy it makes sense.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of placings besides grand in those shows that a lot of people can be happy with. And I don't argue with what you and Chambero are saying about there being more $20K steers than there are classes for them to win - especially in Texas, where there are way more steers being shown, way more premium sale slots, and way more premium money to be had than anywhere else.  That's not taking away from any other state - I'm from Oklahoma and it's extremely competitive here too, as I know it is many other places as well.  But even in Texas, not every class winner cost $20K either - I sold a class winner in Houston this year for a small fraction of that.  I wouldn't say there are more $20K steers than there are classes to win at OYE, but there are some $20K+ and a lot of $10K plus but my daughter won a class with an $1800 one this year.

Chambero said that with those high dollar steers you're not only paying for the calf, but the service that goes with it.  I'd take that one step further and say you also buy into the name of the jocks and the breeders and the politics that goes with them.  Some people can't afford to or simply don't want to invest in those options - they'd rather just buy the calf and take it from there on their own.
 

RyanChandler

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chambero said:
I forget which classification Pottsboro is now (I'm assuming 3A), but Pottsboro isn't going to run the Celina/Argyle/Prosper triumverate successfully in the playoffs every year. Those guys have the combination of funding/tradition/good coaches/pro athlete kids that make it really hard to do.  Not impossible, but hard.  You played baseball knowing you probably weren't going to win state, but that wasn't going to keep you from trying.
I have never stepped on a field in my entire life that I didn't expect to win- never not once.  If I wasn't prepared to give myself a chance to win, I would have never suited up.
 

RyanChandler

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And that's what makes the distinction between a sport, like football and baseball, and an exhibition, like showing cattle.  In my mind, a sport is a competitive physical activity and you play to win.  That is the goal.  Showing on the other hand, I could see satisfaction coming from the exhibition / display part of it: similar to the other exhibitions such as shop projects or even a car show. 
 

chambero

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-XBAR- said:
chambero said:
I forget which classification Pottsboro is now (I'm assuming 3A), but Pottsboro isn't going to run the Celina/Argyle/Prosper triumverate successfully in the playoffs every year. Those guys have the combination of funding/tradition/good coaches/pro athlete kids that make it really hard to do.  Not impossible, but hard.  You played baseball knowing you probably weren't going to win state, but that wasn't going to keep you from trying.
I have never stepped on a field in my entire life that I didn't expect to win- never not once.  If I wasn't prepared to give myself a chance to win, I would have never suited up.

Baseball is a game of failure.  The best hitters don't "win" but 30-35% of the time.  This is no different, just with an even lower success rate.  Nobody concedes anything.  And you are talking to a parent in my case.  My son has the same attitude in the show ring as he does playing left tackle in football.  I know when he should dominate and when to pray that he gets lucky in both both cases.  But you always have to be good to have a chance to get lucky.
 

Tallcool1

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I certainly understand what you are saying X-BAR, and commend you for having such a positive outlook.

As I look at our steer projects and the experience of it, there is this other lesson that I try to teach.  Don't be "barn blind", because it destroys your ability to recognize quality when you see it. 

I believe the analogy that chambero gave when comparing in the direction of baseball to be very applicable.

I played baseball all the way through college, and coached hundreds and hundreds of Fastpitch games at the highest level our state has to offer.  This is what I told my players over and over.  We are from a town of 1,000 people.  We have been forced to play against teams that come from towns in excess of 1,000,000 people.  My goal for you is not to win all of these games.  My goal for you is to be competitive in all of these games.  There are 10% of our games that we will win before we ever take the field because we just plain have the competition out horsed.  There are 10% of our games that we likely wouldn't win if we played 15 times, because there is a Division I pitcher on that team.  The 80% in the middle are the games that I want you all to focus on.  Those 80% are what will define you as a team.

We show cattle the same way.  We will TAKE a win, but we don't spend enough money to EXPECT to win.  We make the most out of what we have, and our goal is to win classes.  Our county fair sells the top 10%, and we have never failed to make the sale with everything we have taken.  That is my definition of competitive.

 
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