Angus Bulls from Scotland

[Sammy]

Looking at some new semen directories on line, particularly Genex, I notice that they have several new bulls Angus bulls from Scotland - joint owners include some of the high powered names in the breed - they look like stout, deep, hairy frame 5 or just above cattle kind of like the photos of the early 60s or so - what is the deal on this? - new/old genetics or just a new breeding twist marketing ploy- looks like to me that if you used some of these bulls you could make some cows to use that Ildeno semen that is still in the tank - what are thoughts on the reasoning and breeding direction that these bulls will provide?

 

[Titangurl]

Trying to get new blood

 

[knabe]

- looks like to me that if you used some of these bulls you could make some cows to use that Ildeno semen that is still in the tank.

best post i've seen in a while, though some offspring pictured are not as deep as bull.

 

[Bone2011]

The other day John Janssen stopped by to look at our bulls so I asked about it. He said that the breeder that raised them lives in Angus county. The herd has been in the family for generations and they have never brought in a bull or cow from a different herd all have been home raised. He said the cow trails actually have a strip of grass growing in between the one trail! now that is what i call base width!

 

[Torch]

As an Angus breeder, I think it is great that there is an influx of genetics from around the globe. Some of these bulls are red gene carriers (which is considered a defect by some) and there is at least one red bull from there as well. Which is great as I breed the "red" ones too.

I hope they bring something to the genetic mix and are not just a fad.

 

[PRO]

I saw something awhile back about an ISU project that utilized semen from a scottish bull named Ballot of Bandolier.  They managed to create three bull calves from this champion from the 1950's, and I believe they are marketing semen from one of them.  Ballot of ISU 667 or something similar was the new AI sire.  The breed would make a serious move in the right direction to sample real angus genetics from the past and elsewhere.  The infusion of "old time" genetics could help to undue the damage from number chasing that led to the overuse of  defective bloodlines.  IMHO. 

 

[Sammy]

yes it will be quite interesting to see what some of the places like Connealy, Boyd and so forth will do with these bloodlines on their cow herds - in a couple of years we will probably see some offspring that will be quite remarkable - I think that there are 3 or 4 of the Scottish bulls on the Genex site and what I found most interesting and appealing was the support photos of the dam and grand dam of the bull Jipsey Earl - what cows!!!  and like an earlier posted mentioned, look at the width of base of the dam of Jipsey Earl nursing a calf with a photo from behind - worth looking up to view on a cold afternoon - these cows look like that on grass as I doubt that there is much corn in Scotland -

 

[kfacres]

PRO... ISU u refer to, Illinois State????  We, at school, bred much with their, super moderate, old school promo bull...  Will be looking forward to their calves in Feb and March

 

[Cattledog]

yes it will be quite interesting to see what some of the places like Connealy, Boyd and so forth will do with these bloodlines on their cow herds

Please don't ignore what Kelly Schaff is doing in the angus breed.  When everyone went crazy on the carcass(1680) stuff he stayed true to his philosophies.  We now have bull like Density, Net Worth, Bismarck, and many other bulls that have a tone of muscle, rib shape and just plain and simple make cows.  Here is his website.

http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/herdsires.html

 

[Freddy]

I saw a picture of Schaffs Scotish bull the other day an he is a good looking bull an should have more growth than the GENEX bulls... There doing this the same reason they all wanted Bando an Ambush an Traveler  about 8 years ago, the crossbred blood is showing up ,scurs, white ,an defects...  It will proably work for the guys that have those 2000 lb cows, the guys with moderate functional cows they will be real small.... Some of the Cortachy an Jipsey calves are around an they sure aren't to big.....But they need to do something to get Angus back in the herds , was talking to a producer the other day an he was telling me of certain herds they bought bulls from that were producing scurs in there calves, they have some cross cows with horn genetics , don't buy those bulls anymore, an the producers of the bulls are not doing anything wrong , except some of the registered  genectics they used were not what whey were suppose to be ....another breeder they couldn't keep the bulls with there cows, they kinda roamed ....Another producer bought bulls that didn't have any teeth left after he had them a while an these were yearling bulls, is this from feeding to much corn , thats what the producer thought ....Schaffs are selling over 50 head of those Scottish bred bulls this year in there sale ....

 

[cowman]

The other day John Janssen stopped by to look at our bulls so I asked about it. He said that the breeder that raised them lives in Angus county. The herd has been in the family for generations and they have never brought in a bull or cow from a different herd all have been home raised. He said the cow trails actually have a strip of grass growing in between the one trail! now that is what i call base width!

OMG tell me you didn't believe the grass growing in the cow path story...that comment has been well used over the years but never actually true. Especially with an Angus.

 

[Cattledog]

The other day John Janssen stopped by to look at our bulls so I asked about it. He said that the breeder that raised them lives in Angus county. The herd has been in the family for generations and they have never brought in a bull or cow from a different herd all have been home raised. He said the cow trails actually have a strip of grass growing in between the one trail! now that is what i call base width!

OMG tell me you didn't believe the grass growing in the cow path story...that comment has been well used over the years but never actually true. Especially with an Angus.

I agree.  The truth is, if something does walk that wide they aren't sound.

 

[Sammy]

Cattledog, I am right there with you on Schaff - real cattle, we use a lot of their genetics - I am more curious than anything to see how these Scottish genetics are used by "cattle breeders" as opposed to the "cattle multipliers" - we have gotten scurs/horns too out of some of those other bloodlines - those high epd, high-milk, narrow Angus have a  bit too much Holstein or something in them for me - maybe getting back to these pure strains will help some herds, but they could be awfully small - bringing back my reference to using Ildeno again - they all sell by the pound eventually so there will still need to be some grow - I often wonder about the appeal to go back to old genetics in any breed, as surely we have made some progress and there are enough out there to choose from - I really don't think that current breeders would be very pleased with the results of using bulls like Cunia, Ildeno given what today's cattle look like - also the day when you decided to halter up that Ildeno calf would be an eye-opener for some younger breeders -  I think that is is probably more the mystery of using such a bull and this Scottish thing could be a fad that produces some little ones and then folks move on - it will be interesting to see - I did not know that so many were using these Scottish bulls but in the hands of Schaff and Connealy there will be some good ones - thanks for the info -

 

[knabe]

which schaff scottish bull are you referring to?  i couldn't find any info on their site or sale catalog or anything indicating they are part owner of any of the dunlouise partnership over here.

 

[Freddy]

The bull of  Schaffs that I was referring to is on a flyer that I just received , I also tried to find him on the internet an he isn't there yet... His name is WAIMATA E230 an his 80 head of progeny will highlight there sale in 02-13-2010.
A 2750 lb. sire, with fertility, longevity , an foraging ability ... His first 50 sons averaged 897 lbs. at 205 days..  When he talked to me he felt this bull would have more growth then most of the Scottish sires ....

 

[Cattledog]

The bull of  Schaffs that I was referring to is on a flyer that I just received , I also tried to find him on the internet an he isn't there yet... His name is WAIMATA E230 an his 80 head of progeny will highlight there sale in 02-13-2010.
A 2750 lb. sire, with fertility, longevity , an foraging ability ... His first 50 sons averaged 897 lbs. at 205 days..  When he talked to me he felt this bull would have more growth then most of the Scottish sires ....

Is this him?

http://www.fossilcreekangus.co.nz/content/view/96/105/

 

[Cattledog]

I believe this is the flyer that you received.  This is a link to a PDF document.

http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/pdfs/brochure2009.pdf

 

[Freddy]

Yes it sure is - thanks, a lot

 

[Freddy]

Here is the picture of the bull from the web site an it says that SCHAFFS are using his semen....

 

[Sammy]

I think that bull is from New Zealand not Scotland - but is the same kind of thing - I agree that he more so fits Schaffs kind of cattle than the little Scottish "lads" - more impressive -