c-section effect flushing?

[vet tech]

Did a c-section on a smokie cow I wanted to flush, will this affect her flushing results? Thanks

 

[redwingfarm]

Was the C section due to birth weight issues?  if so then why would you want to flush a cow with known birthweight problems?  furthermore what if you want to sell the resulting embryos, will you let all potential buyers know about the past issues?  the cow is yours and this is just my opinion and concerns  good luck

 

[vet tech]

The calf was twisted inside the cow and we could not pull him in that position, we were forced to perform the c-section. The calf wasn't huge. And I sure would tell any buyers of the c-section. Although, if they are buying quality eggs, the c-section would make no difference

 

[WHLR SIMMENTALS]

That would be may question to, was it the cows fault or the bulls fault with birthweight? I am also a vet tech I work with a vet who does alot of flushing and AI alot of cattle. If it was a birthweight due to bull I would say you would be alright to go ahead the only other concern would be maybe scar tissue that may pose a problem. You have a 50/50 shot either you bred her again and see if its something she can due on her own or try to flush her. First off you need to figure out if its the bulls problem or the cows!! just my opinion

 

[WHLR SIMMENTALS]

sorry are replys went at the same time! I would say go for it the scar tissue mit pose a problem but if she a good cow and has the full meal deal go for it!!

 

[DTW]

I have a cow that had a c section.  That year we bred her right back after she had the c section.  Then the following year we flushed her. 
My biggest concern on a cow with a c section is getting them bred back that first year. 

And birthweight is not an issue in the show steer business.  That is why alot of people flush certain cows so they dont ruin that great cow and deal with the c sections and calving issues on commercial cows. 

I am not saying i am in favor of the birth weights but i have seen my share of cattle that have won major shows at birth and they are not little.  They come out with big bone and hip. 

 

[aj]

And thus......the club calf deal isn't even attached to the beef industry. Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry. I always chuckle when some goof at the big shows gives the speech about these youth are the future of the beef industry and these cattle are what the industry needs. The barn is loaded with genetic defect carriers with 120# birth weights. It is a circus. Not right or wrong or good or bad but it is the truth. Its a beauty contest. These cattle are what would destroy the beef industry as we know it. Per capita there are more crooks in the showbarn then there are in the Limon Colorado prison. Ahhh....but lets do it for the children.

 

[BadgerFan]

And thus......the club calf deal isn't even attached to the beef industry. Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry. I always chuckle when some goof at the big shows gives the speech about these youth are the future of the beef industry and these cattle are what the industry needs. The barn is loaded with genetic defect carriers with 120# birth weights. It is a circus. Not right or wrong or good or bad but it is the truth. Its a beauty contest. These cattle are what would destroy the beef industry as we know it. Per capita there are more crooks in the showbarn then there are in the Limon Colorado prison. Ahhh....but lets do it for the children.

AJ, there are lots of good people and good cattle at shows.  Part of growing up is learning to judge both.

 

[Show Heifer]

I was faced with a very different yet similiar dilemma this past spring. I called all the experts, ranging from vet schools, bovine vets, and every flush facility I could get a phone number for, and all but ONE said that a c-section leaves scars that reduces the possibility of a successful flush. One of them recommended IVF, but not flushing.
One said "I guess you could try it, but don't count on it" (not too encouraging)

So, I guess I would suggest you not try it.... but I have known cows to breed after a c-section (from what I was told, this is totally different than flushing).

 

[vet tech]

Our embryologist as well as Dr. Mimms in Texas say that if all heals correctly that there should be no problems. Hopefully they are right

 

[DakotaCow]

I would have to disagree with your statement about ET not being related to the beef industry. For example there are many producers that would be considered small and sell less than 100 bulls a year that offer ET brothers to not only increase the quality of their offering and to offer full brothers to volume buyers. Schaff Angus Valley uses embryo transfer extensivley. Last time I checked they werent exactly a "clubby" kind of operation, but then again things might have changed since yesterday... <cowboy>

And thus......the club calf deal isn't even attached to the beef industry. Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry. I always chuckle when some goof at the big shows gives the speech about these youth are the future of the beef industry and these cattle are what the industry needs. The barn is loaded with genetic defect carriers with 120# birth weights. It is a circus. Not right or wrong or good or bad but it is the truth. Its a beauty contest. These cattle are what would destroy the beef industry as we know it. Per capita there are more crooks in the showbarn then there are in the Limon Colorado prison. Ahhh....but lets do it for the children.

 

[herf96]

One of most prolific cows had a c-section and never had a problem with flushing.  She was flushed 5 times with the results of 6, 7, 1, 12, and 13 embryos.  The reason for the low number the one time was marked as either drug related, or semen quaility.  I probably would not try flushing this time if you plan to rebreed her for a natural calf this year.  I would make a decision on two choices.  Leave the cow open and feed her well this summer and flush this fall and freeze the eggs, or breed her naturally and have her carry a calf and then next spring 45-60 days flush the cow and set fresh embryos.  The fresh flush option guarantees a higher conception rate, and you can see if the cows reproductive tract is going to work without the expense of the flush.  The other may result in the loss of 1000 dollars and setting your cow back on a timely rebreed, or everything goes great and you go on down the road.  I like the option of breeding her back evaluating the situation and plan on doing a fresh transfer next spring.  As far as c-sections affecting the flush results I have had good results, but have also used Mimms for all my flushing.  Now I am sure that complication can arise from scar tissue.  JMO

 

[JSchroeder]

Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry.

Of all the dumb things you have said on this site, this takes the cake.

Have you even looked at an Angus or Red Angus sale catalog in the past ten years?  They're not selling show cattle in those 500 head bull sales.

 

[CAB]

If I were you and were planning on flushing the cow, I would watch her and if I caught her in heat, I would start the count down to get her set up for the flush on her next cycle. If she will cycle normally, she go ahead and flush. JMO.

 

[OH Breeder]

And thus......the club calf deal isn't even attached to the beef industry. Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry. I always chuckle when some goof at the big shows gives the speech about these youth are the future of the beef industry and these cattle are what the industry needs. The barn is loaded with genetic defect carriers with 120# birth weights. It is a circus. Not right or wrong or good or bad but it is the truth. Its a beauty contest. These cattle are what would destroy the beef industry as we know it. Per capita there are more crooks in the showbarn then there are in the Limon Colorado prison. Ahhh....but lets do it for the children.

..........................

 

[aj]

I know Henry down at Ashland Ks did some ETing. I guess I don't know of any herds that sell 500 bulls in a sale. Who is it? Gardiners always sold females at their sales along with the bulls.

 

[JSchroeder]

Just one example, R.A. Brown sells between 400 and 500 Angus, Red Angus, Simmental, and SimAngus bulls a year and is 80%+ embryo transfer.  The top large Brahman and Brangus operations are just as, if not more, focused on ET.  Take a look at most seedstock Charolais pedigrees and by and large you are going to find ET on there somewhere.  That's not even getting started on most large scale Angus operations.

Honestly AJ, your club calf bashing obsession aside, if you don't know this kind of stuff what makes you think you know enough about the 'beef industry' to preach at people on this forum in the way you do?

 

[aj]

I guess I stand corrected then if you call between 400-500 bulls...500 bulls.

 

[JSchroeder]

Now you are just trolling.

Very seldom is ET even related to the beef industry.

BTW, they had 504 in their 09 sale and 486 in their 09 sale.

 

[aj]

I know Becktons,Sitz,Leachman, Kit Pharos group sale move alot of bulls also. These guys usually flush a proven cow once she gets some progency on the ground. I would say that 85% of ETing is done for the showring.