Calving 101

[Top Knot]

I woulnd't use dairy colostrum if you paid me.  Too many diseases to pick up, especially Johne's.  We tag and check sex, and of course make sure the calf is nursing.  We have been able to minimize the scours problem by vaccinating the cows at preg check, and calving out on open pasture.

to you and the post under you

you both are dumb asses...  The dairy side of me wants to slap you in the face, and poke you in the eyes in hopes you may wake up and smell the flowers...  Don't classify the entire industry based on an uniformed opinion...  I grow sick and tired of beef producers bashing the dairy industry...  Do you not know that 30-40% of the beef industry is actually dairy influenced????  Furthermore, I'm sure you know nothing of the dairy zach speaks of, and I can assure you that not all dairys have Johnes...  sure some do, but some don't. 

My suggestion to you... don't drink milk anymore--  even though it's pasturized-- you may get Johnes, or another form!!!

"Johne’s disease is estimated to be present in 68 percent of U.S. dairy operations and in eight out of 100 U.S. beef herds."

This is from a Jan 26, 2010 USDA news release. It's not bashing dairies, it's fact. The dairy environment is more conducive to the spread of Johne's. That said, not only would I not use colostrum from a dairy, I wouldn't use it from any other beef herd either. If you can't collect your own, there are colostrum replacers out there (not just supplements).

 

[Shady Lane]

I totally agree with this statement, I would be pretty reluctant to use Colostrum from another beef herd even not just from a dairy specifically.

Obviously colostrum is much more easily obtained from dairies and lots of dairy farmers are more than happy to give yyou some or sell it to you quite reasonably.

If I need to supplement colostrum to my calves it either comes from one of my own cows or from a commercial powdered source.

 

[DL]

How long can you keep frozen colostrum before the good properties disappear?   

The recommendation is a year - but if it is not in a frost free freezer it is probably pretty adequate for at least 3. I suspect there is some degradation of the immunogloubins over time

 

[kfacres]

we do not pasturize our colostrum, nor do I recommend it...

edited my other post..

just ticked off


Sincerely,
Jody-
raised on a dairy farm, who also has beef and sheep

 

[kanshow]

I'd be concerned about using colostrum from any herd other than my own.    I used to try to milk out some of the first milk from cows but it just isn't worth it to get them that agitated for a little bit of milk.    The colostrx has worked for us for years - although I don't know that the new improved easier mixing formula is as good as the old. 

 

[linnettejane]

nkotb - ya beat me to it - using dairy colostrum on calves you intend to keep or sell for breeding is a BAD idea - very BAD - very very BAD -- you open yourself up to all kinds of nasty infections including Johne's disease -

what we do - dip and slosh navel with 7% iodine - pour into cup - use once discard

BoSe
ADE
Alpha 7 clostridial vaccine
weigh
tag

if calf doesn't get colostrum within an hour esp if the weather is bad - feed 2 L colostrix of lifeline - if calf won't take - tube

if any worry calf is chilled - into the box

calf coats in cold weather - style and warmth (my barn has no walls)

i love that "coat!"  did you make it or buy it???  very stylish! 

 

[dori36]

After making sure the cow has accepted the calf and that the calf has sucked, I leave them alone for a couple of hours to bond without me disturbing them.  I, then, check them several times over the next 24 hrs to watch for any unexpected problems.  I don't routinely do any vaccinating at this time nor any vitamin shots.  I try to have a year around program in place so my mother cow/s aren't deficient.  My calf health program mostly revolves around the cows.  I don't vaccinate calves 'til I"m ready to wean.  Since my place is soooo small here in Michigan, compared to Wyoming, I can see cows/calves every day right out my window so keep track of them that way.  By the same token, since the acreage is small with high tensile wire for fences, I keep the cow/calf in the corrals for 4 or 5 days so I'm sure the calf's vision is sufficiently developed to see the wires.  Then, it's out to pasture they go!

 

[DL]

LJ - made for me - polar fleece - clearly a heifer coat!

Jody - if you are ticked off about the facts of the industry you are apparently involved in perhaps you should read more and type less if the fact get you that bad can't imagine what you would do if Ruth Harrison showed up in your barn

 

[Show Heifer]

Getting colostrum from another herd just doesn't make sense to me.  Why introduce possible diseases into a NEWBORN calf with NO immunity? 
Of course, I wouldn't even dream of going to a salebarn and buying a baby calf, regardless of breed, and bring it to my farm to "draft" onto a cow that lost her calf.  Have you SEEN what goes through a salebarn????

I worked at a vet clinic many years ago that got colostrum from a local dairy to sell to farmers.  After several years, the increase in johnies caught a vet students attention. One slow day, we got to tracking things.... seems like they had one thing in common. (And I am not going to point out the obvious)
I'm also not going to get into the dairy vs beef disease issue. It is a fact that US dairies have about a 70% Johnies rate. Beef johnies is about 8%.  FACTS.  Johnies can be spread by colostrum. FACT.
kfacres: have you tested your dairy herd for johnies?  Your beef herd?  Results? maybe you should lumped with the 70%, maybe not. If you haven't tested, how do you know?

zach, hope you don't have problems, but, when you do, it is too late and then you a problem you can not deal with easily, and could have been avoided.

DL:  The company I deal with for the supplies has a product they call a colostrum REPLACEMENT, it is NOT a SUPPLEMENT. It is about $30 a packet.  Has highest immuniogloblin percent I have ever heard of.  So my question is, is a replacement used strictly for total lack of cows colostrum, and a supplement used for additional nutrtional when the cow is just low on colostrum? What is a good level for a colostrum replacement/supplement?

 

[farmboy]

when I have a problem using it, I'll let all of you know so you can chant in unison "Told you so"

 

[vcsf]

In the distant past I have gotten colostrum from a dairy but not for probably over twenty years and I will not do it again.  I have also milked out a lot of heavy milking cows of my own and frozen the colostrum to have a supply on hand.  But I personally do not enjoy hand milking that much and have heard complaints on more than I occasion about the bottles full of colostrum in the deep freeze.  I would be somewhat curious how others store frozen colostrum and go about thawing it.  I have always frozen it in plastic bottles and then thawed it in a warm water bath.  I know some people say it can be thawed in the microwave but I am afraid of overheating.  Given the time it takes to thaw and the pain it is having in the freezer I have gone to using the commercially available replacements almost exclusively.  I can come to the house and have it mixed in minutes and go back and give it to the calf immediately rather than having to wait for frozen stuff to thaw and be warmed up and then going back out.  Usually when I decide a calf needs something I want to get it done as soon as possible.  Here a high quality replacement is available for about $20 a dose.

 

[Show Heifer]

Give me some credit zach, I wouldn't do that. I would just laugh at you.

 

[Shady Lane]

In the distant past I have gotten colostrum from a dairy but not for probably over twenty years and I will not do it again.  I have also milked out a lot of heavy milking cows of my own and frozen the colostrum to have a supply on hand.  But I personally do not enjoy hand milking that much and have heard complaints on more than I occasion about the bottles full of colostrum in the deep freeze.   I would be somewhat curious how others store frozen colostrum and go about thawing it.  I have always frozen it in plastic bottles and then thawed it in a warm water bath.  I know some people say it can be thawed in the microwave but I am afraid of overheating.   Given the time it takes to thaw and the pain it is having in the freezer I have gone to using the commercially available replacements almost exclusively.  I can come to the house and have it mixed in minutes and go back and give it to the calf immediately rather than having to wait for frozen stuff to thaw and be warmed up and then going back out.   Usually when I decide a calf needs something I want to get it done as soon as possible.  Here a high quality replacement is available for about $20 a dose.

I have stored it in large Ziplock freezer bags, more surface area than a bottle and seems to thaw a litle quicker in a sinkfull of warm water.

I've been told that the microwave is bad for colostrum and can kill antibodies in it, but maybe that is an old wives tale, I'm not sure.

 

[kanshow]

I agree with the time it takes to thaw the frozen stuff.  I like to give the calf a nice warm drink to help with body temp.  With the frozen, I don't get it it as warm as I'd like because I'm worried about destroying the antibodies & immunoglobins.    That's why I like the powdered.

SH - The product you are talking about has someting like 120mg of immunoglobins?    The standard product has anywhere from 50 - 55 - depending on which brand.  I too am interested in how much is enough.

 

[CAB]

We use the 20 oz. plastic pop bottles and freeze. Not recommended to thaw in a microwave as it will kill the antibodies, so warm water bath. We usually have a bottle or 2 in the fridge about calving time so it doesn't take that long to warm up.
 Man I thought that $9.00 was high enough for the powered colostrum!! I'm a very tight Dane. If you've ever been around one you'll know just how tight that can be.

 

[kanshow]

Valley Vet has the cheapest price on it ..  and even then, it was in the high 20s..  WOW!

So question.. if the higher level is needed, would mixing 2 of the lower level in your 2qts be enough 55 + 55 = 110.  That would be assuming you could get that much colostrum to dissolve. 

 

[DL]

Valley Vet has the cheapest price on it ..  and even then, it was in the high 20s..   WOW!

So question.. if the higher level is needed, would mixing 2 of the lower level in your 2qts be enough 55 + 55 = 110.   That would be assuming you could get that much colostrum to dissolve. 

kanshow - to answer your question - NO! If you use colostrum supplement and the calf is not nursing I would use 4 pks - ie for the first 4 feedings - don't mix 2 together as it will screw up the osmolarity and could be an issue

colostrum replacement - can give just once

the basic goal is to give the calf sufficient immunoglobulins within the first 48 hours of life (when the calf gut is "open" and absorbing them) to provide immunity vs disease - it doesn't have to be given all at birth

the best colostrum is of course from the cow, next from the farm - ie every farm has different issues - you will get the best protection from your own cows and have lesser risk of introducing other diseases

thawing frozen colostrum - in warm water - yes it is a pain, microwaving will (can) denature proteins - immunoglobulins are proteins

zach - were not laughing with you we are laughing at you : :

 

[farmboy]

laugh all you want.

GO BUCKS

 

[aj]

Has anyone tried the bio-moss stuff in mineral? Its like a 5 $ add on per mineral bag. I assume for tight calving quarters. My brother calved out 25 heifers last year on cornstalks and electric fence. 20 of them stuck ai to the angus bull Homer the other 5 from cleanup bull.All dropped unassisted. All calves were tagged. Any heifer that had dystocia was to be shot. Hows that for for cowboy justice and calving 101? He didn't have a calving pen. I feel sorry for his wife also.....though she really doesn't like me much.

 

[walker p]

I think alot of people on this forum have one of the main symptoms of Johne's disease diarrhea ( of the mouth ). They just want to point out everyone elses mistakes and rub it in their faces. There are more suttle ways of getting your point across people.  <beer>