afhm
Well-known member
same bulllinnettejane said:
Cunia 602 = not a cunia, papers pulled
- Thread starter P-F
- Start date
Help Support Steer Planet:
Jill I think P-F assumed that Cunia 602 was done also and look how that turned out. This is one reason of many of why I hate associations.
P-F did the association give you your registration fees back, or was it your fault for using this bull? No one has accountability anymore. Frostie
P-F did the association give you your registration fees back, or was it your fault for using this bull? No one has accountability anymore. Frostie
justintime
Well-known member
Running an association is a pretty thankless job, but who would regulate if we didn't have them. I agree with Jill, in that, bulls like Chill Factor, Cold Front, and others of similar pedigree, should be parentage tested by DNA according to the regulations. Any association I have ever dealt with is pretty stringent in sticking to regulations and this is a good thing for us all. Occasionally, a situation like this appears, and it has to be dealt with. It oftentimes is messy but it is better than just letting it go.
I believe that there have been animals in every breed that fall through the cracks and receive registration status when they are not what the breeder claims they are. Some of these are human error, some are intentional... and it has been this way since the beginning of time. It is not just a recent thing.
I remember a few years ago, a friend of mine was asked to help an older breeder catch up on some registrations. It was a large herd of over 300 cows and the old boy had two calf crops that he had not got around to getting papers on. As my friend sat down to fill out an application form, he asked the old man what the sire of the calf was, to which he replied... " What bull is the most popular right now"? He had purchased semen from a pile of bulls but had no records of what cows he had used it on.
I believe that there have been animals in every breed that fall through the cracks and receive registration status when they are not what the breeder claims they are. Some of these are human error, some are intentional... and it has been this way since the beginning of time. It is not just a recent thing.
I remember a few years ago, a friend of mine was asked to help an older breeder catch up on some registrations. It was a large herd of over 300 cows and the old boy had two calf crops that he had not got around to getting papers on. As my friend sat down to fill out an application form, he asked the old man what the sire of the calf was, to which he replied... " What bull is the most popular right now"? He had purchased semen from a pile of bulls but had no records of what cows he had used it on.
My ET technician mistakenly used a amp of Danigo and an amp of Abraham on a flush. I had to send an amp of Danigo to Davis to parentage test offspring when I know (because I did it on other bulls) that amaa required blood to be sent to Davis on AI bulls since formation in 1969. I guess they lost the data.
twistedhshowstock
Well-known member
I am confused, this topic has gone all over the place, did the AMAA pull Cunia 602s papers or did they also pull the papers on everything that is supposedly out of him.
I know a few years back the Beefmaster association went through something similar. One of the first big named black bulls in the breed had people suspicious. Just enough breed character to pass, but not enough to be convincing. People long believed that he was high % maine I believe. Anyway he was used heavily a ton of offspring and a ton of people that had semen in the tank on him. From my understanding people had been pushing the BBU to type him, they required DNA to be on file but didnt actually type anything is my understanding. Anyway when they did type him he didnt type back to what he was supposed to type to, but they also couldnt prove he wasnt full Beefmaster. The BBU did pull the bulls papers, but they did not pull papers on his offspring. They felt it was wrong to penalize people who had used him knowing that he had papers. They also gave people that had semen in the tank 1 yr to get calves on the ground and registration aps in on the calves.
I feel this is the way the AMAA should handle this situation. While they cant type to anything they have tried, they also cant prove that he isnt full blood, if he in fact doesnt type to what it is said he is out of and they cant easily type him to another possibility(such as in the case of maybe they used the wrong semen) then I would definately agree with pulling his papers. But unless they can prove without a doubt that he isnt Maine, I would not agree with them pulling papers on cattle out of him from people that used him believing him to be legit.
I also dont know that the AMAA necessarily didnt keep their end of the bargain. Does their rule state that bulls who are collected have to be typed or just have DNA on file. Most breeds I know require DNA to be on file but dont actually do anything with it unless there is cause for concern. I didnt reallize Kroupa was banned from the AMAA, if he was banned for discrepencies in registrations then I would think that would be cause enough for concern to type anything he produced.
I know a few years back the Beefmaster association went through something similar. One of the first big named black bulls in the breed had people suspicious. Just enough breed character to pass, but not enough to be convincing. People long believed that he was high % maine I believe. Anyway he was used heavily a ton of offspring and a ton of people that had semen in the tank on him. From my understanding people had been pushing the BBU to type him, they required DNA to be on file but didnt actually type anything is my understanding. Anyway when they did type him he didnt type back to what he was supposed to type to, but they also couldnt prove he wasnt full Beefmaster. The BBU did pull the bulls papers, but they did not pull papers on his offspring. They felt it was wrong to penalize people who had used him knowing that he had papers. They also gave people that had semen in the tank 1 yr to get calves on the ground and registration aps in on the calves.
I feel this is the way the AMAA should handle this situation. While they cant type to anything they have tried, they also cant prove that he isnt full blood, if he in fact doesnt type to what it is said he is out of and they cant easily type him to another possibility(such as in the case of maybe they used the wrong semen) then I would definately agree with pulling his papers. But unless they can prove without a doubt that he isnt Maine, I would not agree with them pulling papers on cattle out of him from people that used him believing him to be legit.
I also dont know that the AMAA necessarily didnt keep their end of the bargain. Does their rule state that bulls who are collected have to be typed or just have DNA on file. Most breeds I know require DNA to be on file but dont actually do anything with it unless there is cause for concern. I didnt reallize Kroupa was banned from the AMAA, if he was banned for discrepencies in registrations then I would think that would be cause enough for concern to type anything he produced.
CAB
Well-known member
Does anyone know where you can find any semen on Cunia 602?
knabe
Well-known member
what does it take to get banned from the amaa?
Freddy
Well-known member
I raised three females that are very young an flushed one this year to MONOPOLY AN LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE CALVES .... Look like great cows ...
Telos
Well-known member
SEA said:
At this point, he is simply sired by a crossbred bull of unknown origin.
The problem is that other inquiries may be in question. i.e. How many other bulls were promoted and did not varify to Cunia (before DNA testing was required) but were registered as direct sons? Associations sometimes just have their hands tied with offspring already established within the population.
hntwhitetail
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2010
- Messages
- 1,452
Ever figure out what he was out of?
knabe
Well-known member
Traveler.
blackdiamond
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 384
knabe said:
proven fact, or fictional fact?
Freddy
Well-known member
Is the calves out of this bull clean of TH or pha
Woody
Well-known member
At this point you might be better off calling him a Heatwave (clapping)
