Lautner's Hereford.

[yuppiecowboy]

Are you refering to the hereford looking reserve steer? He classified everywhere but is at most 1/8 herf

 

[DLD]

Yeah, I guess he was reserve - my bad.  I don't believe he'd have been questioned at the Junior National, especially if "the paperwork was right".

 

[skeeter]

no, you're not the only one that remembers Perfection.  Oh my, back then you could have a college debate contest or start a small civil war and maybe even have a 'killin back in those days if the merits or heritage of Perfection were brought up, specially here in Texas.  I'm trying to remember (something that gets harder each day) but there was even a break off from the Polled Hereford Assoc. and there was another association started, just can't remember the name, maybe someone else can.  BUT, I will say that Perfection, IMO, had an impact and you could see his influence in the Hereford steer shows, and to some extent the heifer shows too, here in Texas.  goodness, hadn't even thought of that bull since my daughter showed, but he was a very hot topic and generated heated debate here in TX.

 

[Beach Limousin]

Agreed 100% Jill! All purebred cattle have a place in the industry, and once we go to all low percentage, where's the difference? As a purebred breeder, I will never say that crossbred animals dont have there advantages, but if all the breeds go to marketing a "cross" instead of promoting and breeding purebred cattle, at what point are they all the same? To me, the purpose of the registration organizations is to promote THE BREED, not a hybrid crossbred.
Just my opinion.
Cody
Beach Limousin

 

[DLD]

no, you're not the only one that remembers Perfection.  Oh my, back then you could have a college debate contest or start a small civil war and maybe even have a 'killin back in those days if the merits or heritage of Perfection were brought up, specially here in Texas.  I'm trying to remember (something that gets harder each day) but there was even a break off from the Polled Hereford Assoc. and there was another association started, just can't remember the name, maybe someone else can.  BUT, I will say that Perfection, IMO, had an impact and you could see his influence in the Hereford steer shows, and to some extent the heifer shows too, here in Texas.  goodness, hadn't even thought of that bull since my daughter showed, but he was a very hot topic and generated heated debate here in TX.

 

Yep.  "Progressive Hereford Association" or something like that comes to mind, but my memory's goin' the same way as yours, I might've just dreamed that one.

 

[clifflem]

International Hereford Organization was the breed association that registered the perfections and some of the other crossbred Hereford cattle.  They had an IHO show in Louisville for 2 or 3 years when they were in existance.  I remember some good cattle(at that time) that were spotted and brocklefaced that showed in that show.  They also had an appendix program.

 

[Telos]

There's something to be said for those Hereford folks that refused to add different genetics. In some ways most of us should appreciate that.

    Maximum heterosis...Heat Wave x L1 Herefords.  <cowboy>

DLD, I sure liked showing my purebred Herefords, a few years before your time. Many were the best haired of all the breeds. They were just a pleasure to dress up. And I kow, they needed to add some different genetics in order to be competitive for the steer shows. I still think some of those Herefords are the best footed/sounded cattle left out there.

 

[Cattledog]

As far as a percentage deal I really don't agree on that, Angus and Hereford have a purpose in the cattle industry and the only place a % program comes into play is in the show ring, all of the breeds bring something to the table when you are looking at a commercial crossbreeding program, when all of the breeds go to a percentage deal what we are left with is a bunch of crossbred animals, why bother with an association or registry at that point. 

I realize that the percentage deal is for the showring.  I really don't think if the angus breed would offer a percentage deal it would take away from the purebred side.  There is way too much money with the pure lines for them to mix it up with another breed.  Regarless, it will never happen.  There is no need to do so.  Heck, all of these new deals like limflex...or anything that involves black angus genetics just makes the Angus breed stronger .... and another association is doing all the work.  So if you look at it another way there are already Angus appendix classifications except they are sponsored by a different breed association. 

 

[kane1598]

Just thought I would thow in my two cents and talk a little about my cow and calf that I co-own with Doung McCollum and John Merrill. The cow, we call Roxie, is also a Heatseeker marked like a hereford (her damn is a nuff said x hereford). She has proven to throw hereford color even out of black bulls, her Dr. Who heifer calf is marked perfectly like a hereford. Here are some is a picture of the cow. We will have embryos available soon. Contact one of us for more information.

 

[skeeter]

International Hereford Organization.  There were several sales I attended that had cattle listed under American Polled Hereford Assoc.  and then others listed under IHO.  Saw lots of dollars spent on those IHO cattle.  I know of 2 Hereford herds here in Texas that probably still have some Perfection in them and they sell some stout hereford steer prospects, some stay here and the ones marked a little funny usually wind up in Oklahoma where they're not as strict on classifying on appearance as Texas is.  BTW, I remember the Dr. Who heifer and her mama on another thread and saw pics.  even talked to the gentleman about the pair but the sale had already gone through.  Wish you luck on the pair and think you might have picked up a possible donor or 2 that could sure make y'all some $$$.  Embryos out of Made Right, Wasp or Carpe - yeah, would sure like to see those steers.

 

[kane1598]

Yes we all are very exctided to see those steers too, very very exctied.

 

[Jill]

I'll not disagree they are a beautiful pair, but like it or not they aren't Herefords, they are crossbreds.

 

[HerefordGuy]

I think that is an important distinction to make, fullblood Herefords and Hereford-marked crossbreds.  With DNA testing I think the risk of pedigree mistakes is greatly reduced, for example LaGrand OnCall, oops, I mean LaGrand Reload.  That was an honest mistake and it was corrected.  So, in the past crossbreds might have been registered as Herefords, but in the future this will become more and more difficult.  Now I am sure there are people who are smart enough to get around the system, but all I can hope is they won't be successful.

Last night at the county fair I saw a great Hereford-marked crossbred steer in the Hereford class.  I could tell he had a lot of Maine, because he had those little knobs on his head where a Hereford would have scurs, but a Maine often has boney, hair covered knobs.  Did that bother me?  No, not at all, I was excited to see such a cool steer.  So, in the club calf world, make all the Hereford-marked crossbreds you want.  I plan on making some in the future my self when I can afford cattle. But, I don't think Herefords, or I hope Herefords, never have an appendix registry.  Having a closed herd book makes the breed more divergent from other breeds, and wahlaa, more heterosis in Hereford crosses.

Another reason Hereford steers rarely compete, is you are very unlikely to cut a really nice Hereford bull.  He is worth way more to you as a bull than a steer.  My brother showed a purebreed Hereford steer we raised, won high point Hereford in New Mexico that year, and got second in class to the Grand Champion steer at the San Juan County fair.  If any of you know about New Mexico club calf shows, you know how competitive the show has become as a result of the oil money in the community.

Red Rock looks good, I really like him.  Perhaps a tick straight up front?  What do you all think?  I'm still working on reading structure with out seeing the cattle move.
The other thing that concerns me is his markings.  The white on his loin would bother some classifiers I think.

Jared

 

[shorthorn boy]

I was told by a lady that use to live on a hereford farm when she was growing up that back in the 70s that hereford farms were using the traditional colored simmental bulls on hereford cows to add a bit more frame and muscle and she remembered that they had a hereford, steer or heifer I cant remember what it was, well anyway it was only half hereford and the other half was full blood simmental so if people were breeding there animals that way wouldn't that mean that many herefords could trace back to a different breed. She raises angus now and she also told me that people were breeding holsteins to angus cows to add more frame also. Its sad that there aren't really very many full blood animals out there anymore and I am very surprised that both herefords and angus don't have a percentage registry yet. Also some of my friends and I like to kid around that someday every breed will be black, I sure hope that doesn't come true. Really with a percentage program you are in a way promoting the breed because it shows that your breed can cross well with other breeds. The whole purpose of the Shorthorn plus and Durham Red programs (I don't know if shorthorn is a good example since the breed could use some improvements but its what I know) are to show some of the advantages of using a purebred shorthorn bull on different breeds of cattle especially the use of shorthorns on red angus cows. By the way there are some good shorthorn bulls out there that would work well in a commercial situation. ;D Its just an effort to help promote the breed. But now if you are talking about Maines or Chis, no offense to to the producers of these cattle, but their percentage programs in my oppinion are to add more to the show ring, really all they all are are crossbreds, I guess its all to help the associations make more money which is completely understandable. PS, I do like Chis and Maines ;D

 

[Telos]

Will the day come where we distinguish breeds by hair color alone?

 

[DLD]

There's something to be said for those Hereford folks that refused to add different genetics. In some ways most of us should appreciate that.

    Maximum heterosis...Heat Wave x L1 Herefords.   <cowboy>

DLD, I sure liked showing my purebred Herefords, a few years before your time. Many were the best haired of all the breeds. They were just a pleasure to dress up. And I kow, they needed to add some different genetics in order to be competitive for the steer shows. I still think some of those Herefords are the best footed/sounded cattle left out there.

Yes Telos, I still believe that soundness and mobility are one of the biggest strengths that Herefords have to offer crossbreeding programs. And as far as Hereford hair goes, I've heard alot of folks cuss it, but like you, I grew up working Hereford hair and I still enjoy it.  And there may be more of those Heat Wave and Heat Seeker sired Herefords crosses floatin' around out there than most folks would ever dream of  - not to mention Nuff Saids, Stingers, High Rollers, War Horses, Double everythings...

I realize that the percentage deal is for the showring.  I really don't think if the angus breed would offer a percentage deal it would take away from the purebred side.  There is way too much money with the pure lines for them to mix it up with another breed.  Regarless, it will never happen.  There is no need to do so.  Heck, all of these new deals like limflex...or anything that involves black angus genetics just makes the Angus breed stronger .... and another association is doing all the work.  So if you look at it another way there are already Angus appendix classifications except they are sponsored by a different breed association. 

I agree about the possibilities of percentage programs in the Angus breed - the continental breeds are pretty well covering that already.  But just like with the Herefords, anyone that believes that there are no registered Angus cattle out there with any outside influence is being pretty naive, too.  There've been plenty of discussions on this board alone about calves with two registered Angus parents popping up with too much white, red, horns, scurs, etc...  Anybody remember that popular Maine bull several years ago whose calves would bloodtype Angus everytime?  Not all of those ended up as show steers...


I know several club calf producers that are using these Hereford marked bulls, and some registered  Hereford bulls, too, on black cows, Charolais cross cows, whatever, to help out with things like consistency, soundness and birthweights.  There's a good market for show prospects that aren't just solid black these days.  I don't see where that can be anything but good for registered Herefords and just Hereford marked cattle, too.

 

[DLD]

Will the day come where we distinguish breeds by hair color alone?

In the steer shows, that might be a good thing.  In general, I hope not, but it surely could be so...

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

There was never ever any intention of bashing any breed of cattle. Facts are Facts.It always seems to go back[discussion] to club calf breeders or something. I used to be an Angus breeder,worked for some of the top herds in the country in the sixties and seventies. Trust me there were LOTS of Maine and Chi bred into the best cows that those folks owned. I know because I AI"d lots of them. Back then most of the breeders to be "safe" sent blood to Ohio State, Okla. State and Kansas State and they ALL came back "clean". The crossbreeding argument will always have ambers to burn for some. Look at all the feedlots in West Texas, Okla. panhandle,Western Kansas, Northern Colorado, Nebraska,Iowa, Minn. or Wisconsin,tell me how many purebreds you see> I like most all breeds of cattle,but as some of you like to remind me, FACTS are FACTS. Hooray for anyone trying to keep the purebred herds going, just don't get confused about crossbreeding programs and blame all on clubby breeders. most consumers that know nothing about breeding cattle think they are getting purebred Angus beef in the grocery store because a package says Certified Angus on the package. At one time that was a joke.

 

[knabe]

There's something to be said for those Hereford folks that refused to add different genetics. In some ways most of us should appreciate that.

    Maximum heterosis...Heat Wave x L1 Herefords.   <cowboy>

DLD, I sure liked showing my purebred Herefords, a few years before your time. Many were the best haired of all the breeds. They were just a pleasure to dress up. And I kow, they needed to add some different genetics in order to be competitive for the steer shows. I still think some of those Herefords are the best footed/sounded cattle left out there.

don't forget, there are some herefords in some dang good maine genetics.

here's one.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=332713

 

[Josh]

Does anyone know where Lautners got this bull from?