Lautner's Hereford.

[DLD]

don't forget, there are some herefords in some dang good maine genetics.

here's one.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=332713

Knabe, there used to be some Hereford marked higher percentage Maines around.  I know there was an outfit east of Emporia, Kansas that had quite a few, can't remember their name, but last I'd heard they went to Gelbviehs I believe. Also heard that Llinds (sp?) in Colorado had a few at one time. Ya know, it wouldn't be hard to breed up a set...

The Chiford deal kinda looked like it could take off there for a little while, but it never really did.  I believe there are quite a few Hereford marked registered Chi's around, but they're not papered Chiford because they've got more than just Chi and Hereford in 'em.

 

[Cattledog]

DLD, I know that the angus breed hasn't progressed without outside influence.  My family has raised angus for almost fifty years now.  I've seen the pics from the beginning to what I see now.  How many breeds are completely pure? Still breeds depend on the angus breed for consistency and functionality.

 

[GONEWEST]

Sometimes here there is just a big to do about nothing. GEEZ. This bull is to make steers that classify here in the south. Not to sneak TH into the breed. To ME, classification is at least more honest than using registration papers and not being truthful about the parentage. How in the world could anyone complain about a semen company having marketing a bull that would do that? If people decide to be dishonest and use him in purebred cattle and be dishonest about parentage that's on them, not the bull or the company that markets him.

Ridiculing the bull because of what he is takes the same logic as ridiculing a Hummer because it couldn't win the Grand Prix. It wasn't designed to do that.

And HEREFORDFOOTBALL, you seem like a nice young man, but if you think you can take those purebreds of yours and compete in a classification show against steers that are only Hereford marked, you need to drag a few of those steers down here or to Texas and OK and then you'd have a long way to drive home with a red face and your tail between your legs after they embarrassed you. You don't get cattle like my friend and shameless self promoter  Kane pictured above with purebred Herefords very often. If you did, there would be no need to cross them with other breeds to get that kind now would there?

 

[DLD]

Cattledog, I agree completely. Angus and Herefords both remain more pure and thus more predictable than many of the other breeds out there.  I don't know if any breed is completely pure anymore - not to say there aren't pure cattlle, but whether by accident or design, pedigrees just can't be trusted to be 100% accurate 100% of the time.  Kinda like epd's, the papers are only as good as the people that turn 'em in.

 

[CJC]

Just thought I would thow in my two cents and talk a little about my cow and calf that I co-own with Doung McCollum and John Merrill. The cow, we call Roxie, is also a Heatseeker marked like a hereford (her damn is a nuff said x hereford). She has proven to throw hereford color even out of black bulls, her Dr. Who heifer calf is marked perfectly like a hereford. Here are some is a picture of the cow. We will have embryos available soon. Contact one of us for more information.

I believe your cow has some simmy in her some where down the line. Having the ring eye or eyes can't see the other one.

 

[Cattledog]

Cattledog, I agree completely. Angus and Herefords both remain more pure and thus more predictable than many of the other breeds out there.  I don't know if any breed is completely pure anymore - not to say there aren't pure cattlle, but whether by accident or design, pedigrees just can't be trusted to be 100% accurate 100% of the time.  Kinda like epd's, the papers are only as good as the people that turn 'em in.

Right on.

 

[herefordfootball]

And HEREFORDFOOTBALL, you seem like a nice young man, but if you think you can take those purebreds of yours and compete in a classification show against steers that are only Hereford marked, you need to drag a few of those steers down here or to Texas and OK and then you'd have a long way to drive home with a red face and your tail between your legs after they embarrassed you. You don't get cattle like my friend and shameless self promoter  Kane pictured above with purebred Herefords very often. If you did, there would be no need to cross them with other breeds to get that kind now would there?
[/quote]

Thanks!!! 

Personally no my purebreds wouldnt stand a chance against the color classified cattle. I'm not big enough yet to take you up on that bet, but there are some people up here that would, and I can guarantee ya that their purebreds would compete with any color marked calf you can get your hands on. And guess what your color marked calves would get laughed out of a show up here by a judge that knew a crooked one when he saw it. And guess what I saw it happen at two spring shows this year. 

Kanes heifer is extremely impressive!!!  (thumbsup) Phenotypically one of the best I've seen this year. And yes there are some breeders up here, that frankly could beat a crossed herf calf no problem, beleive me. And no there is no need to cross herefords.

 

[doublestuff]

Obviously Herefordfootball has never been to or seen a market hereford class of steers at Fortworth, OklahomaCity, Houston, ECT....    He couldn't have and still honestly be able to think his purebred buddies can compete with the crosses. Just doesn't happen. For the same reasons a pot belly pig will never beat a york/hamp cross in a hog show, Its just not a coparable animal.

 

[doublestuff]

That was supposed to be compairable above. Shuda proof read first. LOL!!!

 

[aj]

The original appendix programs started in the USA in what ....the late 60's,70's. You basically had 3 breeds Angus,Herford, and Shorthorns. New breed asscoiations were formed for Limousin,Chianina,Simmental, Maine Anjou. Since there were no purebreds(only semen) coming in from Europe or where ever the only way to develop these breeds effectively was use the semen and start % herds and breed up %'s. So originally appendix programs weren't for showring benefit it was the only way to start up the breeds. I guess it was to generate papers and income though. I think the only breeds that don't have appendix programs were the Herford and Angus. Of course the Simmental,Limousin, Salers, Maines, on and on were RED cattle back then. Then the black hided joke of a deal came on. You could make your breed black in on generation an it tripled your marketing power. Again I am not an "Ivory tower puriest" but the th deal is going to be a problem out in the country.

 

[Cattledog]

Man AJ.... you sure are bitter about the Black Angus breed.  Didn't your beloved Red Angus come from them?

 

[kane1598]

I just want to say thanks for the good words about the cow and calf. They may be the next big thing in making hereford classifying steers, I beleive so anyway! We are excited for their future down in Texas and hope that many of you are too.

 

[skeeter]

kane, I've said before, wish you luck.  I'm only speaking about Texas and Oklahoma, but I really think you have a bright future in those two.  I can forsee those 2 producing outstanding hereford steers and hope they're marked good.  I'm not joining in the discussion on hereford's being pure, I'm strictly interested in hereford steers classifying in Texas.  I know it's hard for someone not from Texas to understand our classifying on herefords, angus, and shorthorns (hey, that's a whole nother subject on the horns), but down here, it's the way the shows are done and we strive to get our steers classed, you have to class or you're out at FW.  As someone said before, if you've seen the Hereford steer show (both polled & horned) at Fort Worth, specially the horned classes this last year, you understand, yes, they are awesome steers.  You won't see Hereford steers (ok, hereford marked steers) like that anywhere else except at Okla. City.  maybe one day I'll be fortunate and pick up an embryo or two out of the pair. really think you've got a future with the pair.

 

[afhm]

Obviously Herefordfootball has never been to or seen a market hereford class of steers at Fortworth, OklahomaCity, Houston, ECT....    He couldn't have and still honestly be able to think his purebred buddies can compete with the crosses. Just doesn't happen. For the same reasons a pot belly pig will never beat a york/hamp cross in a hog show, Its just not a coparable animal.

You'd be suprised at how many pure herefords are winning in those shows.  Not a huge percentage, but more than you would expect.

 

[doublestuff]

Ur right afm I would be suprised.

 

[herefordfootball]

Obviously Herefordfootball has never been to or seen a market hereford class of steers at Fortworth, OklahomaCity, Houston, ECT....    He couldn't have and still honestly be able to think his purebred buddies can compete with the crosses. Just doesn't happen. For the same reasons a pot belly pig will never beat a york/hamp cross in a hog show, Its just not a coparable animal.
[/quote


doublestuff, I have beent to a couple of those shows, and I have seen the crossed herfs and I can still honestly say my "buddies" purebreds would still beat them. I dont know them personally, but I have seen Barbers cattle from Texas win a show with a PUREBRED HEREFORD. It is possible believe me. I will try and find which issue of the show circuit it was in and post a link. Oh and another thing those places you listed arent the only ones with crossed herfs, there are some shows up here that have crossed herfs in a purebred class, and they get usually get laughed out because of the markings. We were in a class with 4 calves the judge was a hereford breeder himself, and guess what the crooked one was thicker, bigger topped, and had more bone than any of them in our class, but guess what place it got. 4 out of 4. This doesnt always happen because some judges just dont see that crossed herf look. Next time you say Obviously so and so has never done or been there, I would ask who I was talking to before I made a fool of myself.

 

[doublestuff]

whatever dude.

 

[herefordfootball]

Kane I wish you luck with the pair!!! They look like impressive animals and I think they will have a bright future in that South Western Show Circuit. I really like that heifer, as you know I'm not a cross herf guy, but you have quite a pair on your hands there that I think could make some steers that would eat up a color classified show. Good Luck!!!

 

[herefordfootball]

whatever dude.

doublestuff, check out barber ranchs' website. Their purebreds can run with any cross herfs in the country. Thats my opinion, but most people consider a fact.

 

[aj]

Good cattle are good cattle. Angus are great cattle. Just don't sell me a pen of 100% limi black cattle and tell me they will grade. Before the black hide deal exploded fat cattle graded 70% choice across the nation. Now 90% of cattle are black and the industry ave for choice in feedlots is right around 50%. Someone is going to have to explain to me haow this is progress. What we now have is a cow herd(nationally) of exotic black cattle that won't grade. But shazam....they are black.